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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:52 am 
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Maybe this issue has come up before but am I right in thinking that within the EC-verse once you've been trained as a dog, a horse, a cat or whatever, that's it, it's a one-way street? There's no way back to "ordinary" human slave status? That seems to be implied by any of the petgirl depictions so far and the "repurposing" of puppygirls for non-domestic-pet use such as the K19 unit. If so, I imagine there are two parts to the irreversibility. One is simply legal and societal convention. Once pet status is "gained" that's a permanent designation as far as anyone is concerned. But also, you'd imagine that intensive behavioural conditioning, if successful, would introduce a strong inhibition on the subject from expressing any human type behaviour. No matter how much she is able to reflect as a human (although we see with Yummycunt that even this is heavily influenced by canine behaviour for her) she just can't make herself speak like a human, use her hands, stand up etc. If this is a fair description, I think there's plenty of interesting corollaries about what happens when an owner is bored of his pet. Of course he could put her down, but he might find that someone would take such a well trained animal off his hands. There are lots of uses for dogs in this world apart from domestic pets. Guide dogs for the blind, guard dogs (perhaps a former blue collar), farm dogs etc. Would it be the case that in the EC-verse that such activities tend to be carried out by puppygirls more so than actual canines?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:45 am 
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I think that apart from physical adaptations (slavepuppy's broken feet for example), adapting a slave to a new 'occupation' would be just as hard as in the EC world as in ours. Going from a ponygirl to a hotel greeter should be possible.

I love the idea of guarddogs, guidedogs, etc. I'd love to see a blind master in action!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:42 pm 
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triona_b wrote:
Would it be the case that in the EC-verse that such activities tend to be carried out by puppygirls more so than actual canines?

Only when it's sexy! 8-)

I think that proper conditioning is only permanent as long as it is reinforced. As you say society views these girls a certain way so they tend to act that way. Left to her own devices Yummycunt (or any other 'animal'-girl) would probably loose the more inconvenient aspects of being a puppy-girl just because nobody bothers to correct her when she breaks her training. She'll stay broken as a person but no longer be a proper puppy-girl. Though she probably would take to retraining pretty well.

If someone wanted to, I don't think that changing a girl back into a 'girl' would be anymore difficult than a real world person being deprogrammed from a 'cult' religion. It's just that nobody has any motivation to make the effort.


(just remember that using pets for higher order tasks is what led to the ape rebellion in 'Conquest of the Planet of the Apes') :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:23 pm 
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Dr. White wrote:
triona_b wrote:
Would it be the case that in the EC-verse that such activities tend to be carried out by puppygirls more so than actual canines?
I think that proper conditioning is only permanent as long as it is reinforced. As you say society views these girls a certain way so they tend to act that way. Left to her own devices Yummycunt (or any other 'animal'-girl) would probably loose the more inconvenient aspects of being a puppy-girl just because nobody bothers to correct her when she breaks her training. She'll stay broken as a person but no longer be a proper puppy-girl. Though she probably would take to retraining pretty well.

If someone wanted to, I don't think that changing a girl back into a 'girl' would be anymore difficult than a real world person being deprogrammed from a 'cult' religion. It's just that nobody has any motivation to make the effort.


I suppose this is what I'm getting at. In theory, it's possible to undo training and retrain a puppy as a girl but only anti-CFSL extremists would consider doing this and even then they might not bother with the hassle when there's the more low-hanging fruit activity of freeing ordinary slaves. I imagine that in the EC-verse, ordinary people (probably including most slave girls!) would think it mildly preposterous to train a puppygirl "the wrong way" to act human. "What will they think of next!"


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:44 am 
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I think it will be unnecessary to train a puppygirl to act human again. If you want a human-like slave you can just buy a new girl, one with a standard slave training. I assume puppy training alters the slave's mind a lot (Lana Wilson talked about her experience before). With the chemicals and mind-altering drugs in the slave food, the effects must be stronger and permanent. So changing a petgirl back sounds difficult and time consuming at best, considering the alternative of visiting the local Girlmart.

Re-purposing the petgirl to do other tasks makes perfect sense. You just train them and sell them to master who would use her skills. K-19 is a good example. Someone mentioned the guide dog for blind masters option. They can also be guard dogs, shepherd dogs, etc.



EDIT - This gave me an idea. What about a FLF rehab center for puppygirls? :D They rescue petgirls and retrain them to act human.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:01 am 
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samantha wrote:
What about a FLF rehab center for puppygirls? :D They rescue petgirls and retrain them to act human.


A great idea perhaps Tammy should investigate?

On the more general issue I think that the truth lies somewhere between what has already been said. Yummycunt acts entirely cnaine but thinks very human (even to vindictive bitchiness) I think if her Master was to pass on and she was given to a Master with other tastes she could revert to a Human slave girl (perhaps after repair work on her feet, but perhaps her feet have already healed and it is only training and expectation that keep her on all fours now? The damage was simply an effective mnemonic device for her)

Having said that I think that their thought patterns have been altered by the experience as proved by Lana Wilson's insights and it would take conscious effort on behalf of both her and her new Master to revert to a fully human slave girl.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:04 am 
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Quote:
EDIT - This gave me an idea. What about a FLF rehab center for puppygirls? They rescue petgirls and retrain them to act human


What would be cool about a scenario like that is if the puppies were so indoctrinated they just refused to play along and stubbornly resisted the re-training, persisting in going around on all fours, woofing and licking each others' butts etc, much to the exasperation of their "saviours"! :D


Last edited by triona_b on Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:11 am 
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Rufus wrote:
Yummycunt acts entirely cnaine but thinks very human (even to vindictive bitchiness)


Ah but notice the word: "bitchiness". Her "human" thinking reflects a strong canine influence. When you look at what she wants to do to Lea:

"I should bite her cute little nose off"
"I could chew her leg off"

it's the sorts of things a dog would do...


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:12 am 
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Yes that must count as an unintentional pun on my behalf. Your point is a good one though.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:08 am 
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As a few have already mentioned, I have some experience when it comes to being trained as a puppy slave. My training lasted and entire summer and was very intense. There were times when I started thinking I really was a dog, but I never fully lost my humanity. I relate a lot with Yummycunt in that although I still had human thoughts they were warped by my puppy training.

As for retraining the puppy, pony, or whatever other animal slave to be human again all it takes is reconditioning. The human brain, as great and powerful as it is, is highly suceptable. Given enough time and training a person can be programmed to believe anything.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:19 am 
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Lana Wilson wrote:
Given enough time and training a person can be programmed to believe anything.

* Valiantly resists urge to make inappropriate political comment.*

:twisted:


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:49 am 
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Spaz wrote:
Lana Wilson wrote:
Given enough time and training a person can be programmed to believe anything.

* Valiantly resists urge to make inappropriate political comment.*

:twisted:


Also people can resist anything thrown at them if they have the correct conditioning. Lacking a fear of death dramatically reduces the effectivness of all sorts of techniques.

A burning anger is great because when vengence takes precidence then death and pain become less effective. Indeed pain can be used to reinforce anger...

Courage is not the absence of fear mearly the judgement that something else is more important than it.

I would like to see a story when an 'unbreakable' girl makes an apperence - when she doesn't care about dying and calls peoples bluff i.e then go ahead and kill me you've spend x on me and wasted it. despite pain she remains resolute.

People have and do resisted things like this i.e interrogation.

Fixing somebody is always harder than breaking them but I imagine that somebody somewhere would try it if not out of bordem at the 'mundane' and bragging rights.

Thats my 2 cents

MM113

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:29 am 
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m113 wrote:
I would like to see a story when an 'unbreakable' girl makes an apperence - when she doesn't care about dying and calls peoples bluff i.e then go ahead and kill me you've spend x on me and wasted it. despite pain she remains resolute.

People have and do resisted things like this i.e interrogation.

Fixing somebody is always harder than breaking them but I imagine that somebody somewhere would try it if not out of bordem at the 'mundane' and bragging rights.

Thats my 2 cents

MM113


We already saw an unbreakable girl. Anna. At least she has not been broken by anything that has been thrown at her yet. Personally I want her to break, but it has to be believable, she's already shown above average resistance, so I want to really believe she breaks. I don't think anyone is truly "unbreakable"

I think if some one is a prisoner, and their keepers have total control over every aspect of their life, (what they eat, what they see, where they sleep, what is done to them, torture etc...) then eventually some combination of stimuli could be found to break them.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:03 am 
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We already saw an unbreakable girl. Anna. At least she has not been broken by anything that has been thrown at her yet. Personally I want her to break, but it has to be believable, she's already shown above average resistance, so I want to really believe she breaks. I don't think anyone is truly "unbreakable"

I think if some one is a prisoner, and their keepers have total control over every aspect of their life, (what they eat, what they see, where they sleep, what is done to them, torture etc...) then eventually some combination of stimuli could be found to break them.


That's the point - people often think that and most of the time its true but the keepers never have "total control." A prisoner does not have to eat if death is not a concern. People can and do survive torture. People are "unbreakable" - they only break because something else matters to them more.

People can survive being in a locked room with no human contact and irregular meals along with random torture - i.e electroshock. Its all about guarding the thought process and the brain. Suicide may be the out some take but still they remain unbroken. Every combination of stimuli used can be countered. Thats the point. People use combinations because one form is vunerable. In a combination attack only one form needs to fail for everything to reset.

A person can be so obsessed with something that it consumes their whole life and nothing will force them to break. Hence most intelligence agencies 'trick' people into doing things they think will help them - but it is always a choice to break. Even tricked people can refuse to break out of stubborness and loyalty.

The reason everybody assumes no body is unbreakable is because most people will break and are never in a position were they need to remain unbroken. i.e deals are cut. However people are capable of being unbreakable.

And once broken people can be fixed - given enough time...

they just might not be the same as before. Same but different..

That said looking forward to Annas rebellion...

Girls kick butt.

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Last edited by m113 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:58 am 
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I have to say that m113 is right and that an "Unbreakable" girl would be an excellent topic for a story.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:28 pm 
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m113 wrote:
Quote:
We already saw an unbreakable girl. Anna. At least she has not been broken by anything that has been thrown at her yet. Personally I want her to break, but it has to be believable, she's already shown above average resistance, so I want to really believe she breaks. I don't think anyone is truly "unbreakable"

I think if some one is a prisoner, and their keepers have total control over every aspect of their life, (what they eat, what they see, where they sleep, what is done to them, torture etc...) then eventually some combination of stimuli could be found to break them.


That's the point - people often think that and most of the time its true but the keepers never have "total control." A prisoner does not have to eat if death is not a concern. People can and do survive torture. People are "unbreakable" - they only break because something else matters to them more.

People can survive being in a locked room with no human contact and irregular meals along with random torture - i.e electroshock. Its all about guarding the thought process and the brain. Suicide may be the out some take but still they remain unbroken. Every combination of stimuli used can be countered. Thats the point. People use combinations because one form is vunerable. In a combination attack only one form needs to fail for everything to reset.

A person can be so obsessed with something that it consumes their whole life and nothing will force them to break. Hence most intelligence agencies 'trick' people into doing things they think will help them - but it is always a choice to break. Even tricked people can refuse to break out of stubborness and loyalty.

The reason everybody assumes no body is unbreakable is because most people will break and are never in a position were they need to remain unbroken. i.e deals are cut. However people are capable of being unbreakable.

And once broken people can be fixed - given enough time...

they just might not be the same as before. Same but different..

That said looking forward to Annas rebellion...

Girls kick butt.


I always find the "unbreakable person" scenario to be interesting because the question is not so much whether a person can be broken but how you define "unbreakable".

If you mean broken in the way you would break a horse and get it to obey you and become submissive then it’s simply a matter of chemical or surgical conditioning. Play with the right chemicals in the brain you can turn a tiger into a kitten. But does chemically or surgically subjugating someone count as breaking them?
If you mean getting information out of someone, then the question becomes one of speed, can you get the information out before they force themselves to forget?
If you mean breaking someone in taking away their sense of self, their very identity then again all it takes is time and the proper techniques, the Viet Kong Mastered these techniques during the Vietnam war when they were able to turn loyal American soldiers against their fellow soldiers through torture and brainwashing. But does how long it takes for one person compared to another make them unbreakable? Years or decades versus weeks or months?
Even those who would be willing to accept pain, disfiguration and death rather than submit are willing to do so because they value something more than their own life, it is merely a case of finding that someone or something that can be threatened or destroyed instead, whether it be family, friends or simply their last spark of some emotion like hope, integrity or pride. If you take that away or threaten it correctly the person will submit, it is the same as threatening the lives of most people, and they just hold whatever Achilles heel higher than their own lives. So if you do not find that Achilles heel, that thing they hold higher than their lives, does that make them unbreakable or just not yet broken?

Personally I define breaking a person as breaking their will, making them willingly submitting to another person without drugs, or surgery, and in that scenario being "unbreakable" is a possibility thanks to a single emotion that by its nature cannot be destroyed through any form of torture, abuse, intimidation or threat. Spite is the single emotion that gets stronger the harder you try to break it and that feeds not only on anger and hate but self-destruction, despair, and defeat.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:43 pm 
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Pet Training irreversible just like toilet training (slave fair part 2)


:lol: :heather: :lol: :twisted: :evil: :mrgreen: :D :) ;)


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 11:54 pm 
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Point of clarification before we proceed on this interesting line of speculation. Anna was in fact broken by her original master Zalupatsin. She's a poor argument for the unbreakable personality theory.

But IRL what we discover is that "breaking" is relative. People submit to various things that go against their principles under duress - physical, mental or even economic. When the duress is removed, they revert as much as possible to the personalities they had before. We've seen many historical instances of this. Former P.O.W.s who made propaganda confessions for their captors have gone on, after being released, to lead respectable public lives because of a general understanding of human fragility. Some circumstances are truly extenuating.

But intriguingly we've also seen examples of personalities seemingly able to turn coercion back on their keepers. Nelson Mandela comes to mind. Though a prisoner for a total of 27 years, Mandela's beliefs never wavered (though he admits that he did so physically from time to time). In the end, his guards came to respect him more then they respected their own commanders. Aung San Suu Kyi is a similar example, reminding us of Mandela's wry observation that today's terrorist is tomorrow's head of state.

There are certainly other examples, far more numerous, of captive individuals becoming loyal servants of their keepers. Stockholm Syndrome is a survival mechanism not only for the physical body but also for the psyche. It enables the person suffering it to go on believing he or she is acting by choice in order to avoid the madness of having to admit to having no choice at that point. Patty Hearst comes to mind.

One thing I don't believe, and that history has since proven false, is George Orwell's bleak assertion in 1984 that anyone can be reshaped into anything if enough time and violence are available. The Party got that wrong. Forced collaboration is not the same thing as ideological conversion, a sanguinary reality brought home to any number of brutal political masters as they faced the firing squad. In the case of Romania's Ceaucescu, his own guards riddled his corpse with bullets even though he'd already died of a heart attack. That makes a pretty strong statement. Likewise the mob throwing rocks at the dead body of Mussolini hanging in the Milan gas station.

These days when the ICC puts out an arrest warrant dictators no longer laugh. If they don't die of old age first, they're surprisingly likely to end up like Slobodon Milosovic. Keeping people in a state of terrorized subservience eternally seems ultimately impossible to achieve.

Remove the credible threat of physical retaliation and the formerly enslaved seem to remember rather quickly what they were like before. As others have observed, the memory of freedom dies hard. It comes back quickly, as it did in France after D-Day when the French Resistance went from furtively painting slogans to blowing up Waffen SS panzers.

Socialization, on the other hand, is much more difficult to resist than individual breaking. Where there is an obviously intrusive oppressor, there is a focus for resistance. When an entire society is permeated with repressive beliefs over a period of generations, it's no longer viewed as oppression but rather normality. That's much harder to reverse. Whole populations socialized to the same values rarely see themselves as oppressed and rarely reject those values, even if they change political regimes through violent overthrow.

E.'s universe lies somewhere in between. The institution of slavery is still fairly recent and many who face enslavement have enough experience of freedom first to know what's at stake. Given another century, it would be interesting to see what that universe would be like. The social conditioning of women to submission is already so pervasive and institutionalized there's comparatively little need for coercion (though it's certainly fun as a hobby) to maintain the social order. No single force emerges as the object of resistance to the status quo. The status quo itself is the force that maintains itself.

I suspect over a period of decades the FLF and others of the same mind would either triumph and overthrow the existing order, be exterminated entirely or eventually simply be assimilated into the general population under the relentless pressure of an unchangeable reality.

Of course, that's what the French thought they'd accomplished in Algeria, as Pontecorvo's brilliant "The Battle of Algiers" makes plain. The Foreign Legion had seemingly wiped out the Algerian resistance entirely and yet in a couple of years the entire country rose as one and tossed them out overnight.

The best thing about human beings is their unpredictability. It keeps stories interesting.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:50 am 
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WOMENARESEXSLAVES wrote:
Pet Training irreversible just like toilet training (slave fair part 2)


:lol: :heather: :lol: :twisted: :evil: :mrgreen: :D :) ;)

welcome to the forum WOMENARESEXSLAVES.

I'm not sure if the toilet slave in SF2 will be there forever. I think she was being punished for something. Possibly she spilled some food or gave the lip to a customer.

Nothing irreversible about sitting there and keeping your mouth open :twisted:


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:11 am 
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MrGoodPecker wrote:
WOMENARESEXSLAVES wrote:
Pet Training irreversible just like toilet training (slave fair part 2)


:lol: :heather: :lol: :twisted: :evil: :mrgreen: :D :) ;)

welcome to the forum WOMENARESEXSLAVES.

I'm not sure if the toilet slave in SF2 will be there forever. I think she was being punished for something. Possibly she spilled some food or gave the lip to a customer.

Nothing irreversible about sitting there and keeping your mouth open :twisted:


true but lets not forget cumbunny and slutkitten are both pet girls too and they are also toilet slaves too because they drink piss and slutkitten eats ass and just the way i love it!

(signature: WOMEN ARE SEX SLAVES)


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