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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 3:35 pm 
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celestical wrote:
WOMENARESEXSLAVES wrote:
i prefer a human becoming a puppy permanently forever that is what i am looking for.

As long as the behavior is enforced, you should be able to.


oh trust me i enforce and re-enforce the behavior and don't let the pet think it is human and always always get in it's using only words telling it, it wanted this and it was never meant to be human and along with every form of pet training shown in erenisch bg series and even using training ideas i have seen from manga makers like kaimeiji yuu and sandbun (kagari, sein zain, and today...) i always look for new form of training and enforce it and re-enforce it.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 12:28 am 
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Again, I still see these questions from a socio-political and historical point of view rather than from the Pavlovian perspective. In fact, the Soviet Union's huge and brutal attempt to create "the new Socialist man" did much to disprove Pavlov's views. Conditioning requires not only constant reinforcement but also the absence of any countervailing influence. Once outside the authority of the conditioning influence, conditioning tends to come unstuck rather quickly.

Which is why I think this whole line of speculation is about a century premature. There is still far too much noise in the system for it to function completely effectively. In fact, we see evidence of systemic failure quite often in E.'s universe, where everything is supposed to run according to a rigid plan but quite often wanders off course.

If the system holds up another few decades, then I think you'd see a fading need for institutions like the BFA and enforcers like slave cops. As things stand now, what we really have is a fairly primitive totalitarian society that has to devote a large percentage of scarce resources to keeping everyone onboard with the plan. There's a lot of heavy-handed official intervention and costly ongoing research into perfecting the conditioning process so the burden of maintaining it by constant brutal reinforcement can be lightened and the total social and political investment in keeping everyone in line can be reduced.

So far, such social engineering, attempted on a vast scale in totalitarian societies of the last century, have proved unstable and unreliable because human beings aren't domestic animals and aren't naturally comfortable surrendering free will. It's going to take some time to instantiate the preordained roles to the point where minimal external control becomes cost-effective.

The caste system in India developed literally over millennia to the point where it became an unthought, unspoken and non-enforced way of living for tens of millions of people. It persists to this day even in the face of massive governmental efforts to undue it.

I'd be interested to see, though I don't imagine it's a high artistic priority, a futuristic E. universe story in which things functioned smoothly without much official intervention and the need to condition the population and suppress resistance had faded away, much as Marx predicted that the dictatorship of the proletariat would eventually lead to a withering of the state.

It didn't work in practice, but it could make for an interesting comic.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 1:21 am 
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ernestgreene wrote:
Again, I still see these questions from a socio-political and historical point of view rather than from the Pavlovian perspective. In fact, the Soviet Union's huge and brutal attempt to create "the new Socialist man" did much to disprove Pavlov's views.


Really? I wasn't aware that Pavlov had any views like that. Silly me, I thought he was a physiologist who performed highly specific experiments to study conditional, involuntary reflexes in animals. I wasn't aware that he put forward some grand theories regarding human nature.

But then again, Mr. Greene, you always say so many things I wasn't aware of.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 2:14 am 
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someoneelse wrote:
ernestgreene wrote:
Again, I still see these questions from a socio-political and historical point of view rather than from the Pavlovian perspective. In fact, the Soviet Union's huge and brutal attempt to create "the new Socialist man" did much to disprove Pavlov's views.


Really? I wasn't aware that Pavlov had any views like that. Silly me, I thought he was a physiologist who performed highly specific experiments to study conditional, involuntary reflexes in animals. I wasn't aware that he put forward some grand theories regarding human nature.

But then again, Mr. Greene, you always say so many things I wasn't aware of.



no i meant yoy have to always always get inside the puppy slave's head with words only before any physical training.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 2:29 am 
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someoneelse wrote:
ernestgreene wrote:
Again, I still see these questions from a socio-political and historical point of view rather than from the Pavlovian perspective. In fact, the Soviet Union's huge and brutal attempt to create "the new Socialist man" did much to disprove Pavlov's views.


Really? I wasn't aware that Pavlov had any views like that. Silly me, I thought he was a physiologist who performed highly specific experiments to study conditional, involuntary reflexes in animals. I wasn't aware that he put forward some grand theories regarding human nature.

But then again, Mr. Greene, you always say so many things I wasn't aware of.


every time any of my slaves try to resist i remind the slave that she or should i say it wanted this it craved this it begged for this it came to me instead of some one else because it wanted me, i always get inside a slave's head to really confuse it and mess it up to the point where it can't think straight anymore that is how i was able to get one of my slaves toilet trained and fed!

and when i say fed you know exactly what i mean by fed, i my way of training my slaves is to break them using effective brain confusing words and driving the slave into believing it truly wanted this and then i start the slaves extreme physical dog and masochist pain slut and toilet training and sex with real dogs with the toilet training and dog sex as punishment for disobedience.

my slaves learn to obey me! and become willing instead of unwilling but then again when my slave come to me first it is completely willing and consensual and when they are good i still punish them any way because they are being trained.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:31 am 
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I do have a reasonably complex history about how this came to being and how it will progress in the next century. I keep it to myself for obvious reasons (I change small details frequently as I go). But the political structure, the nature of the regime, and the methods used to enforce the new social order are all outlined in my mind.

I think I already announced this, but I do have a plan to reveal some revolutionary history and provide some insight about the workings of the political system soon. Some of it will be in the next SC episode. Some of it will be in the Jeff spin-off. Maybe some little easter eggs here and there...

I have a project that showed the revolution itself, but it is practically impossible to make. The time stamp says that I wrote the plot in January 2009. It cannot be done because It requires complex, detailed, time consuming scenes. Also the time period and the story itself will limit the number of sex scenes I can put in there, something I don't like to do. So it will be inserted in other stories in pieces, unless I can devise a better plot.

or maybe a novelization... :roll:


about the original issue of irreversibility of training. I have to agree with Ernest and Lana. It is hard to irreversibly change behavior. You can easily snap out of it when the enforcement mechanism is gone. (That is if you are an adult. If you condition a human as a kid, it is hard to undo that. The caste system is a good example. Religion is another.)

Let's go back to Kimberly and think about an example. She is left in a locked house for days, not knowing when her owner will be back, starving and freezing. Do you think she would obediently wait for owner to came feed her? Or would she eventually turn up the heat, open the refrigerator and make a sandwich for herself?
(Hey, I just got an idea for another comic :D )


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:01 pm 
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someoneelse,

It wasn't Pavlov himself who participated directly in the Soviet efforts to condition the general population. His work, like that of many scientists of varying degrees of legitimacy, was appropriated by the state for its own use, making the necessary "changes" to his theories for mass application. Didn't work, but the history of the attempt is there if you care to do a little research on Soviet "science." Check out Lysenko while you're there.

The party's reasoning, if you care to call it that, was that what worked on dogs would work just as well on humans. In fact, Pavlov, who was a personal favorite of Lenin, engaged in human experimentation to test his theories, starting in the 1920s with generous subsidies from the Soviet government.

Ironically, the affection was not mutual. As a point of clarification, Pavlov himself rejected the idea of mass conditioning in no uncertain terms and even had the temerity to openly protest the regime's persecution of other scientists and intellectuals. Thus it could be more fairly said that the perversion of Pavlov's theories attempted by politicians was discredited. It says something about Lenin's admiration for him, despite Pavlov's vocal dissent, and the CP's ongoing interest in his work that Pavlov lived on to die in 1936 of old age and was given a state funeral with full honors. His home and laboratory were preserved as museums by the Soviet government.

You may be right about Pavlov the man, but the implications of his research as extrapolated for the purposes of his state patrons were much broader. However, Pavlov himself did believe that individual human beings could be conditioned like any other animal and that view has indeed been rejected modern neuroscience.

Hope this dispels any confusion from which you might be suffering.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:48 pm 
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Erenisch wrote:
I have a project that showed the revolution itself, but it is practically impossible to make. The time stamp says that I wrote the plot in January 2009. It cannot be done because It requires complex, detailed, time consuming scenes. Also the time period and the story itself will limit the number of sex scenes I can put in there, something I don't like to do. So it will be inserted in other stories in pieces, unless I can devise a better plot.

or maybe a novelization... :roll:


I'd love to see this. Could make it a combined "official" history (propaganda) of the revolution, mixed in with alternative views of what really happened. There has got to be a lot of dirty laundry about the founders they would find humiliating if it was exposed. ;)

And would be perfect way to add more cameos of the alter egos of Ernest and Nina. :twisted:

Also if you went the novel route, could have images every chapter or so for the interesting and cliffhanger scenes. :idea:

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:52 pm 
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FringeThumb wrote:
Erenisch wrote:
I have a project that showed the revolution itself, but it is practically impossible to make. The time stamp says that I wrote the plot in January 2009. It cannot be done because It requires complex, detailed, time consuming scenes. Also the time period and the story itself will limit the number of sex scenes I can put in there, something I don't like to do. So it will be inserted in other stories in pieces, unless I can devise a better plot.

or maybe a novelization... :roll:


I'd love to see this. Could make it a combined "official" history (propaganda) of the revolution, mixed in with alternative views of what really happened. There has got to be a lot of dirty laundry about the founders they would find humiliating if it was exposed. ;)

And would be perfect way to add more cameos of the alter egos of Ernest and Nina. :twisted:

Also if you went the novel route, could have images every chapter or so for the interesting and cliffhanger scenes. :idea:



It sounds very much like an oral history, or a sort of "scenes of the revolution" series. I would have to imagine there is at least one (I only know the current US version) Michelle Bachmann like figure who would have an interesting story.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:42 pm 
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celestical wrote:
FringeThumb wrote:
Erenisch wrote:
I have a project that showed the revolution itself, but it is practically impossible to make. The time stamp says that I wrote the plot in January 2009. It cannot be done because It requires complex, detailed, time consuming scenes. Also the time period and the story itself will limit the number of sex scenes I can put in there, something I don't like to do. So it will be inserted in other stories in pieces, unless I can devise a better plot.

or maybe a novelization... :roll:


I'd love to see this. Could make it a combined "official" history (propaganda) of the revolution, mixed in with alternative views of what really happened. There has got to be a lot of dirty laundry about the founders they would find humiliating if it was exposed. ;)

And would be perfect way to add more cameos of the alter egos of Ernest and Nina. :twisted:

Also if you went the novel route, could have images every chapter or so for the interesting and cliffhanger scenes. :idea:



It sounds very much like an oral history, or a sort of "scenes of the revolution" series. I would have to imagine there is at least one (I only know the current US version) Michelle Bachmann like figure who would have an interesting story.

over here it would be UKip, just something very wrong about them.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:36 pm 
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Happy to offer our services. Could be fun to the the Rupert Murdoch of the New Order.

Seriously, though, we'd be talking about War and Peace here in terms of length and I can see why any artist would put that on the list of things to do one of these days. I have a similar list and the last time I actually took up something from it the result was a year's work.

That's the problem with stories. One thing leads to another.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:49 pm 
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i prefer the birthday gift to continue some day. i love peter's way of getting in his slaves heads before he ever revealed he wrote the love letter example? cumbunny started going insane before the truth of the love letter came o light.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:28 pm 
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ernestgreene wrote:
Happy to offer our services. Could be fun to the the Rupert Murdoch of the New Order.

Seriously, though, we'd be talking about War and Peace here in terms of length and I can see why any artist would put that on the list of things to do one of these days. I have a similar list and the last time I actually took up something from it the result was a year's work.

That's the problem with stories. One thing leads to another.


Still fun to talk about.

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