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 Post subject: Re: Boob Size
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 4:31 pm 
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Erenisch wrote:
celestical wrote:
t be the legs and height. Porn star part is I'm guessing is Boobs and makeup.

Exactly, except the make-up part.
;)

It's hard to get a good waterline done :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Boob Size
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 4:46 pm 
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celestical wrote:
I'm only talking mainstream comics here, not porn comics, and certainly not your comics, as it doesn't make narrative sense in your stuff to vary in body types, as there is a set standard to what an attractive human female is.

That said, I do think that is sexist. It's going on the assumption that all the women in comics have to be pretty, have to be thin, and have to be young. I personally consider that assumption to be bullshit in a world where Groot is going to be in a multimillion dollar marvel comic movie, in a world where Amanda Waller has been in a consistent Agent Coulson like figure for DC, and in a world where Deadpool is as awesome and popular as Deadpool is.
But it's one of those weird larger society systematic things that will probably not reach any satisfactory resolution for some time. I don't mean to sound like I'm angry at any one person in particular about it, it's just weird that in the comic shop yesterday (We had free comic book day, yay!) There were more types of beautiful women browsing the comics rather than in them.
But again, not expecting that in porn, cause porn you can kinda get away with having that, as it's expected your intended audience no matter what they're after gets their happy happy. Even for granny porn.


I get that, but if we are talking superhero comics, the heroines should look athletic, healthy and yes, sexy, because that is how the artist subliminally communicates power and promise of victory to the reader. The way a character looks is very important, because it often sums up his or her character. Think about Colossus. The guy turns metal. There is little else you need to learn about him. He is strength and sturdiness personified. Male characters often symbolize brute force. They smash, burn and punch. A female character does what her male counterparts do, but she does it in a feminine way: i.e. more gracefully, acrobatically, elastically. So she is generally personification of "grace" or "graceful power". Now if you make her less attractive, she will be less graceful, and less feminine. You can change cup-size of course, but not too much. You have to keep the curves. Curves mean femininity.

Again, this is my humble oversimplified analysis of the superhero genre. Of course comics in general is a vast ocean that allows all kinds of variety.


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 Post subject: Re: Boob Size
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 5:01 pm 
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Erenisch wrote:
Variety is good, yes.


(I wonder if Playboy's editors get fan mail requesting more A-cup playmates.:) )


Hi E

you probably missunderstood the intension of my question.
I didn't want to ask you to flatchest your females. It just appeared to me that women's shapes are far different then they appear in your Comics. And so I became curios.
Thanks for the answer.

I also don't know if Playboy receives any requests about B-cup Girls. But from my point of view, they should.

Looking forward to "The Office"

Greetings

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 Post subject: Re: Boob Size
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 5:24 pm 
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Turns out Playboy has a few b-cup playmates. In 2012 there were two in a B (Most are a C), one in 2013 and from the lists I looked at herebefore I got bored, about 1-2 B cups a year.

Oh, and since I didn't mention before, also a small boob fan, but I like the whole gambit of boob

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 Post subject: Re: Boob Size
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 12:10 am 
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Erenisch wrote:
[If] we are talking superhero comics, the heroines should look athletic, healthy and yes, sexy, because that is how the artist subliminally communicates power and promise of victory to the reader. The way a character looks is very important, because it often sums up his or her character. Think about Colossus. The guy turns metal. There is little else you need to learn about him. He is strength and sturdiness personified. Male characters often symbolize brute force. They smash, burn and punch. A female character does what her male counterparts do, but she does it in a feminine way: i.e. more gracefully, acrobatically, elastically. So she is generally personification of "grace" or "graceful power". Now if you make her less attractive, she will be less graceful, and less feminine. You can change cup-size of course, but not too much. You have to keep the curves. Curves mean femininity.


Hulk and She-Hulk are prime examples of this. Even though they have the same abilities (more or less) Hulk becomes gigantic while She-Hulk remains roughly human in size.

The idea of men being powerful and women being graceful also exists outside comics. In gymnastics men do still rings, parallel bars, high bar, and pommel horse, while women do uneven bars and balance beam (both genders do vault and floor). High bar and uneven bars are very similar, so they also cancel each other out. That leaves men doing still rings, parallel bars, and pommel horse, all of which require a powerful upper body. Meanwhile, the women have the balance beam, which focuses on grace and (obviously) balance.

Of course, I can think of another reason men don't do the balance beam...


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 Post subject: Re: Boob Size
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 2:28 am 
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Powergirl has kind of a manly appearance but she has the rack to compensate :lol:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Power_Girl.png


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 Post subject: Re: Boob Size
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 2:22 pm 
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Ms Marvel, Power Girl...

So many superheroes I've never heard about .. I should get out more.

(Or you could just say that's the drawback - and not the only one - of growing up in the eastern block before the wall fell...some, eh, a lot of, western culture thingies are totally lost on me (although I've really tried to catch up by moving around quite a bit since I got out :mrgreen: ))

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 Post subject: Re: Boob Size
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 2:28 pm 
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Bangerman wrote:
Powergirl has kind of a manly appearance but she has the rack to compensate :lol:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Power_Girl.png


Oh hey she's the current forum girl

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 Post subject: Re: Boob Size
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 3:07 pm 
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Okay now, Powergirl's costume is definitely sexist. no argument there... :)

I buy that tight spandex thing, sure. But what could be the practical reason for that cleavage window?



EDIT - And once again, the conversation eerily touches upon another item featured in "The Office".


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 Post subject: Re: Boob Size
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 5:15 pm 
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Erenisch wrote:

EDIT - And once again, the conversation eerily touches upon another item featured in "The Office".


OK Quit Baiting us just tell us who to kill!

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 Post subject: Re: Boob Size
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 7:37 pm 
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Erenisch wrote:
Okay now, Powergirl's costume is definitely sexist. no argument there... :)

I buy that tight spandex thing, sure. But what could be the practical reason for that cleavage window?



EDIT - And once again, the conversation eerily touches upon another item featured in "The Office".



It's going to be fun when we all get the comic and look through and go "oh hey there's that part, oh hey!"

As far as the cleavage window, The only think I can think of is that pockets are nice, and I know girls with that much bust that will use that front pocket. Though once she's flying, I'm sure that is the polar opposite of aerodynamic.

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 Post subject: Re: Boob Size
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 1:52 am 
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l0gin4me wrote:
The idea of men being powerful and women being graceful also exists outside comics. on't do the balance beam...


This reminds me of an image I saw posted on FB a few weeks ago. It had a picture of a Barbie doll and pointed out that the doll has long been criticised for giving girls an unrealistic expectation of what they should look like. It then pointed out theris a male equivalent. He-Man all impossibly muscled and carrying a big axe. Nobody has EVER claimed He-Man is not a sensible role model


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 Post subject: Re: Boob Size
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 5:19 am 
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Rufus wrote:
l0gin4me wrote:
The idea of men being powerful and women being graceful also exists outside comics. on't do the balance beam...


This reminds me of an image I saw posted on FB a few weeks ago. It had a picture of a Barbie doll and pointed out that the doll has long been criticised for giving girls an unrealistic expectation of what they should look like. It then pointed out theris a male equivalent. He-Man all impossibly muscled and carrying a big axe. Nobody has EVER claimed He-Man is not a sensible role model


Interesting point that I have never thought of before. Nobody has ever said that men shouldn't have muscles but people accept that men don't normally look that way.

This is going to stick with me for a bit.

Thank you for raising the point.

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 Post subject: Re: Boob Size
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 10:24 am 
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Rufus wrote:
l0gin4me wrote:
The idea of men being powerful and women being graceful also exists outside comics. on't do the balance beam...


This reminds me of an image I saw posted on FB a few weeks ago. It had a picture of a Barbie doll and pointed out that the doll has long been criticised for giving girls an unrealistic expectation of what they should look like. It then pointed out theris a male equivalent. He-Man all impossibly muscled and carrying a big axe. Nobody has EVER claimed He-Man is not a sensible role model


Just think about typical female magazines. It's all about fashion, beauty and health.
And these prints are created and published by women since decades.

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 Post subject: Re: Boob Size
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 3:14 pm 
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Actually, the magazines are mostly owned by men who depend on fashion advertisers to turn a profit. They hire female editors to make sure the content will keep the advertisers happy.

But it is true that while much is made of the unrealistic expectations media images impose on women and how this can lead to poor self-esteem (something I tend to dismiss as a First World problem as opposed to, say, the plight of women in the DR Congo), not much is said about the masculine icons that are even less possible to emulate.

Sports figures: not many of us are tall enough to play professional basketball or strong enough to compete at football or hockey.

Movie stars: Not many of us resemble George Clooney or Brad Pitt or Jon Hamm.

Rich guys: Even Donald Trump can get laid, despite the scary hair more easily than a perfectly attractive ordinary guy with a nice personality who works a regular job.

Male models: Are you buff, under thirty, have ruggedly handsome features and fit a U.S. size 40 perfectly? Otherwise you're not that guy.

And when it comes to super-heros, well, I don't think many of us can fly, swing between buildings or melt steel with our x-ray eyes, so I guess we won't be running in that competition.

We've been sold impossible ideals since Homer's time. It's a human thing to hold up unrealistic standards of power and beauty and then feel inadequate because we can't live up to them. But we can dream and selling those dreams back to us is the foundation of modern commercial media.


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 Post subject: Re: Boob Size
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 4:33 pm 
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ernestgreene wrote:
Actually, the magazines are mostly owned by men who depend on fashion advisors to turn a profit. They hire female editors to make sure the content will keep the advertisers happy.

But it is true that while much is made of the unrealistic expectations media images impose on women and how this can lead to poor self-esteem (something I tend to dismiss as a First World problem as opposed to, say, the plight of women in the DR Congo), not much is said about the masculine icons that are even less possible to emulate.

Sports figures: not many of us are tall enough to play professional basketball or strong enough to compete at football or hockey.

Movie stars: Not many of us resemble George Clooney or Brad Pitt or Jon Hamm.

Rich guys: Even Donald Trump can get laid, despite the scary hair more easily than a perfectly attractive ordinary guy with a nice personality who works a regular job.

Male models: Are you buff, under thirty, have ruggedly handsome features and fit a U.S. size 40 perfectly? Otherwise you're not that guy.

And when it comes to super-heros, well, I don't think many of us can fly, swing between buildings or melt steel with our x-ray eyes, so I guess we won't be running in that competition.

We've been sold impossible ideals since Homer's time. It's a human thing to hold up unrealistic standards of power and beauty and then feel inadequate because we can't live up to them. But we can dream and selling those dreams back to us is the foundation of modern commercial media.


I aggree about 90+%.

1. Men might own fashion mags, but women are responsilble for the content. As long as money makes the world go around, nobody will complain. Right?

2. Hope you're talking about the GREEK Homer, not Homer Simpson (who, for sure is a "one of a kind" philosopher).

3. Men might fight against their role model, too. But they appear not to complain as much about as women do.

In my mother tongue we have a saying:

"One man, one WORD.
One woman, a complete Dictionary."

Dosn't mean anything but women are superior in commication!

P.S.: Donald's Hair is scary, for sure!

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 Post subject: Re: Boob Size
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 4:40 pm 
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Still at work but placing an earmark for a later issue with the perception of women overcomplaining. There's an observer fallacy there.

More important to state right now: Spacelord, LORD OF SPACE, bright green is way too bright to not be annoying.

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 Post subject: Re: Boob Size
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 5:16 pm 
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celestical wrote:
Still at work but placing an earmark for a later issue with the perception of women overcomplaining. There's an observer fallacy there.

More important to state right now: Spacelord, LORD OF SPACE, bright green is way too bright to not be annoying.


Hear, hear on the bright green moratorium.

I am very much enjoying this exchange. Fashion content maybe female controlled but usually its about the only area I know where women complain. A lot of the women I know don't like complaining in general (about say an undercooked steak) but will bitch about another girls clothes.

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 Post subject: Re: Boob Size
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 7:34 pm 
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Spacelord wrote:
3. Men might fight against their role model, too. But they appear not to complain as much about as women do.

In my mother tongue we have a saying:

"One man, one WORD.
One woman, a complete Dictionary."

Dosn't mean anything but women are superior in commication!


Appear being the operative word there. Though, It should be pointed out that this study does fall under the WEIRD concern, and that the sample size seems to be more of an indicator.

So it's worth noting that it also doesn't imply that women are superior or inferior as a whole to men as a whole.

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 Post subject: Re: Boob Size
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 8:04 pm 
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And as a man let me just add a few words in praise of complaining. I'm sure there are guys out there who live up to the strong, silent stereotype but I'm certainly not one and neither are most of the men I know. I get a lot of satisfaction out of complaining, especially about things I can't fix. What else is there to do? It keeps me from going even crazier than I already am.

I'm not alone either. Men complain plenty. They complain about their jobs. They complain about their sex lives or lack thereof. They complain about politics. They complain about how lousy their favorite team did in the last game. They complain about the refs in that game. They complain about paying taxes. They complain about their physical ailments.

In Yiddish, we call this kvetching and it has a long and honorable history, especially when you consider all they things we've had to complain about going back to the pharaohs.

Now my wife, who was brought up in a zendo, rarely complains about anything, can't see the point in it and tolerates it from me out of pure affection. I've tried to convert her on this subject but she's just not having any. Complaining is clearly not her thing. This is good because we don't compete for airtime with our complaints.

The perception that women complain more than men is indeed observer error. Men tend to define complaining for themselves rather differently than the way they define it for women. When men complain they're just stating the facts. When women complain they're just doing it to get attention.

Yeah, right.


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