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 Post subject: Re: Real?
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 11:52 pm 
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As the person who asked the question in the TI interview, like any experienced journalist, I had a pretty good idea what the answer would be. E's universe is essentially dystopian and while the female characters are mostly quite likable (even lovable), the men are anything but. As a man with a very happy and active BDSM life of his own in this world, I don't think I'd care to spend my whole existence hanging out with those guys, anymore than E. would.

However, as alternative universes go, E's would certainly be fun to visit.

In our world, where actual slavery (as opposed to M/s play between consenting adults) is still unfortunately common, I oppose it passionately.


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 Post subject: Re: Real?
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 11:53 pm 
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otherguy wrote:
A week long, Erenisch themed excursion is not completely fantasy at Burning Man. It is something that could actually be done given enough planning. Suspended animaiton is already one of the most popular recurring theme camps and they teaching classes in which they tie naked girls from the ceiling. Hell Burning Man has an are called "the orgy pit" it would be at least theoretically possible to create a sort of Erenisch theme park at Burning Man. Am I the only burner on this forum?


never had the chance to see that. (Im not American if you didnt get it from my bad English) but it sounds awesome this suspended animation thing. I will google that right now :D


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 Post subject: Re: Real?
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 11:55 pm 
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ernestgreene wrote:
As the person who asked the question in the TI interview, like any experienced journalist, I had a pretty good idea what the answer would be. E's universe is essentially dystopian and while the female characters are mostly quite likable (even lovable), the men are anything but. As a man with a very happy and active BDSM life of his own in this world, I don't think I'd care to spend my whole existence hanging out with those guys, anymore than E. would.


Hey welcome back ernestgreene! :D


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 Post subject: Re: Real?
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 7:17 am 
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gatolica wrote:
otherguy wrote:
A week long, Erenisch themed excursion is not completely fantasy at Burning Man. It is something that could actually be done given enough planning. Suspended animaiton is already one of the most popular recurring theme camps and they teaching classes in which they tie naked girls from the ceiling. Hell Burning Man has an are called "the orgy pit" it would be at least theoretically possible to create a sort of Erenisch theme park at Burning Man. Am I the only burner on this forum?


never had the chance to see that. (Im not American if you didnt get it from my bad English) but it sounds awesome this suspended animation thing. I will google that right now :D



How'd googling Burning Man go? Its something that is difficult to document or even describe to people who have not been there.


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 Post subject: Re: Real?
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 2:54 pm 
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otherguy wrote:
gatolica wrote:
otherguy wrote:
A week long, Erenisch themed excursion is not completely fantasy at Burning Man. It is something that could actually be done given enough planning. Suspended animaiton is already one of the most popular recurring theme camps and they teaching classes in which they tie naked girls from the ceiling. Hell Burning Man has an are called "the orgy pit" it would be at least theoretically possible to create a sort of Erenisch theme park at Burning Man. Am I the only burner on this forum?


never had the chance to see that. (Im not American if you didnt get it from my bad English) but it sounds awesome this suspended animation thing. I will google that right now :D



How'd googling Burning Man go? Its something that is difficult to document or even describe to people who have not been there.

was in malcome in the middle once, but it ended up being burning van!


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 Post subject: Re: Real?
PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 12:34 am 
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Hello Gatolica,

Nice to be back. Was having login problems with the old forum, but they're fixed now, so here I am.


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 Post subject: Re: Real?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:47 am 
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I have spent some time or so watch the youtube vids of the late Chris Hutchins and Richard Dawrkins. if you go back to the bible in biblical times it was really like being in the e-verse. It was ok to sell your daughter as a sex slave you could enslave your neighbors, so this was a real reality. so as far a religion goes it would be easy to go back


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 Post subject: Re: Real?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 2:35 pm 
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No need to time-travel back to the early days of Abrahamic religions. All you need is a plane ticket. There are, alas, many part of the world still very much as they were a couple of thousand years ago.


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 Post subject: Re: Real?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:32 am 
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ernestgreene wrote:
No need to time-travel back to the early days of Abrahamic religions. All you need is a plane ticket. There are, alas, many part of the world still very much as they were a couple of thousand years ago.

And only anthropologists are delighted by this convenience...


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 Post subject: Re: Real?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:55 am 
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Erenisch wrote:
ernestgreene wrote:
No need to time-travel back to the early days of Abrahamic religions. All you need is a plane ticket. There are, alas, many part of the world still very much as they were a couple of thousand years ago.

And only anthropologists are delighted by this convenience...


And every piece of filth who has a financial interest in this. It is still something perpetuated by people

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 Post subject: Re: Real?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 7:50 am 
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ernestgreene wrote:
No need to time-travel back to the early days of Abrahamic religions. All you need is a plane ticket. There are, alas, many part of the world still very much as they were a couple of thousand years ago.


Might not even need a plane ticket:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-sout ... s-24215255


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 Post subject: Re: Real?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:28 pm 
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I guess the best thing you can say about that is that it's regarded as criminal where it happened. What's really disturbing is how many places this kind of thing is considered perfectly normal to this day.


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 Post subject: Re: Real?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:45 pm 
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Given the discussion, please look to support an anti-trafficking organization like http://www.notforsalecampaign.org/ or http://www.fairgirls.org/page/jewelgirls

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 Post subject: Re: Real?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:08 pm 
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Slavery comic aficionados against slavery! Somehow makes perfect sense to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Real?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:16 pm 
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Makes sense. Us sickos asked for it! They didn't.

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 Post subject: Re: Real?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:22 pm 
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It makes perfect sense. Those who respond to the fantasy of slavery have at least thought about the subject and made the decision to relegate it to the darker places in their own imaginations.

A note of caution about anti-trafficking organizations and campaigns. Many are just what they claim to be and wholly laudable. Others are fronts for right-wing anti-sex-work-anti-migrant-labor groups that dwell on the more lurid aspects of sex trafficking, which is a comparatively small part of the much larger picture of forced labor in the world, to camouflage political anti-immigrant and anti-sex-work agendas. Investigate just who supports these organizations carefully, their political and religious affiliations and their stated goals before sending them your money.

If you see the words "end demand" or "Nordic model" anywhere in their pitch, I'd give them a wide berth. Particularly in the U.S. and the U.K. many of the most vocal "anti-trafficking" campaigners are the same people behind attempts to scrub the internet of all sexual content, including even sites like this forum.

Here again, we need to be careful to make the distinction between morality and ethics. That part of the anti-trafficking movement which is driven by an overall ethical repugnance for slavery in all its forms is very different from that element of the movement that sees an opportunity to impose a repressive sexual morality on democratic societies for political or religious reasons.

The important thing to remember is that for every young woman sold into prostitution, there are ten thousand children impressed into agricultural and industrial labor worldwide. While resolutely opposing the the former, the humanitarian priority is to address the economic and political conditions that sustain the latter.


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 Post subject: Re: Real?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:38 pm 
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ernestgreene wrote:
It makes perfect sense. Those who respond to the fantasy of slavery have at least thought about the subject and made the decision to relegate it to the darker places in their own imaginations.

A note of caution about anti-trafficking organizations and campaigns. Many are just what they claim to be and wholly laudable. Others are fronts for right-wing anti-sex-work-anti-migrant-labor groups that dwell on the more lurid aspects of sex trafficking, which is a comparatively small part of the much larger picture of forced labor in the world, to camouflage political anti-immigrant and anti-sex-work agendas. Investigate just who supports these organizations carefully, their political and religious affiliations and their stated goals before sending them your money.

If you see the words "end demand" or "Nordic model" anywhere in their pitch, I'd give them a wide berth. Particularly in the U.S. and the U.K. many of the most vocal "anti-trafficking" campaigners are the same people behind attempts to scrub the internet of all sexual content, including even sites like this forum.

Here again, we need to be careful to make the distinction between morality and ethics. That part of the anti-trafficking movement which is driven by an overall ethical repugnance for slavery in all its forms is very different from that element of the movement that sees an opportunity to impose a repressive sexual morality on democratic societies for political or religious reasons.

Very good advice Mr. Greene.
Here I'd refer to http://www.charitynavigator.org/ which is of assistance, though not every charity can be validated 100%. I would trust the ones I listed, they came up in my search as fairly positive.
I would also recommend looking into Human Rights Watch (Not Human Rights Campaign. Holy shit not HRC) and Love146, which I found out a friend of mine interned with and spoke highly of. So that's pretty cool.
ernestgreene wrote:
The important thing to remember is that for every young woman sold into prostitution, there are ten thousand children impressed into agricultural and industrial labor worldwide. While resolutely opposing the the former, the humanitarian priority is to address the economic and political conditions that sustain the latter.

I cannot, thankfully for my privileges, fathom that level of pain and strife that many unfortunate people are going through in any of those situations. but if it's possible to help, even in a small way, it's better than nothing :|

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 Post subject: Re: Real?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:06 am 
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Erenisch wrote:
Slavery comic aficionados against slavery! Somehow makes perfect sense to me.

Makes sense. I am sure the majority of horror movie fans are against murder.

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 Post subject: Re: Real?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:51 am 
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ernestgreene wrote:
A note of caution about anti-trafficking organizations and campaigns. Many are just what they claim to be and wholly laudable. Others are fronts for right-wing anti-sex-work-anti-migrant-labor groups that dwell on the more lurid aspects of sex trafficking, which is a comparatively small part of the much larger picture of forced labor in the world, to camouflage political anti-immigrant and anti-sex-work agendas. Investigate just who supports these organizations carefully, their political and religious affiliations and their stated goals before sending them your money.

If you see the words "end demand" or "Nordic model" anywhere in their pitch, I'd give them a wide berth. Particularly in the U.S. and the U.K. many of the most vocal "anti-trafficking" campaigners are the same people behind attempts to scrub the internet of all sexual content, including even sites like this forum.

Here again, we need to be careful to make the distinction between morality and ethics. That part of the anti-trafficking movement which is driven by an overall ethical repugnance for slavery in all its forms is very different from that element of the movement that sees an opportunity to impose a repressive sexual morality on democratic societies for political or religious reasons.

The important thing to remember is that for every young woman sold into prostitution, there are ten thousand children impressed into agricultural and industrial labor worldwide. While resolutely opposing the the former, the humanitarian priority is to address the economic and political conditions that sustain the latter.


Yes. I totally agree with this. I think the trigger word is actually the word "trafficking" itself. The contentious issue is not the "trafficking" but the enslavement in the first place. A blanket term like "trafficking" bundles in voluntary migration and consensual sex work which are the real targets of many in these organisations from right wing loons who are anti-sex and/or anti-immigrant to "feminists" who either a) don't believe that any woman can truly consent to sex work or b) consider sex workers to be some form of gender traitors implicitly responsible for fostering/maintaining sexist and misogynistic attitudes among men.


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 Post subject: Re: Real?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:14 pm 
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Excellently put, Triona. I suspect you and I read some of the same blogs. If so, you'll definitely see familiar names on certain organizations' boards of directors that are also very publicly associated with other causes we would less eagerly embrace. Some are from the political right and others from the neo-con element of feminism (Donna Hughes and Gail Dines come to mind). All share the same agenda of whipping up a moral panic over "Trafficking." As you point out, this is a code word in many cases for repressive schemes aimed at sex-workers, including those who enter sex-work voluntarily and have no intention of leaving it. A bizarre and infuriating article of faith among certain radical feminists is that no woman can consent to sex-work in any form, including porn, because they've been tracked into it by economic pressures and patriarchal programming (to them E.'s universe is already a reality). They dismiss the voices of sex-worker organizations like SWOP as either shilling for pimps or failing to recognize their own "privilege" as part of what they consider a tiny minority of sex-workers who benefit from the status-quo.

In fact, voluntary migration is one of their main targets because it demonstrates exactly the agency and choice sex-workers are supposedly denied. It's here that their whacky ideology, which is nominally leftist, overlaps with the anti-immigration hysteria of the West, where reactionary political organizations regard all migratory labor as a threat to the economic security and social homogeneity of their own societies.

In fact, workers of all kinds have migrated in search of opportunity all over the world throughout history and no society has ever been successful in the attempt to prevent them from doing do so. In this country, billions of dollars have been wasted in the lunatic effort to create a fortress America where only those who stole the land from indigenous peoples have the right to live and work on that land today. In fact, voluntary immigrant labor has been crucial to the success of the American economy over the last hundred years as waves of immigrants have contributed their skills, their ambitions and their cultural diversity to the growth of whole industries.

You can show these xenophobic idiots the statistical proof of this fact from now until doomsday and they will simply reject it as propaganda for "the pro-immigrant lobby." It's hard to debate those who don't care about the facts because they already know The Truth. Global warming deniers think, if that's a fair word to use, in much the same way. They'll continue to insist that nothing unusual is happening to the world's climate due to human activity right up until sea levels rise above their chins.


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