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 Post subject: Re: Karma
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:39 am 
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Fave character: Anna
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Quote:
I'm surprised Anna didn't fuck the chump in the ass before killing him

You don't know that for sure. She might have done it. :twisted:


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 Post subject: Re: Karma
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:00 pm 
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Mister_man wrote:
Quote:
I'm surprised Anna didn't fuck the chump in the ass before killing him

You don't know that for sure. She might have done it. :twisted:

It is very likely. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Karma
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:57 pm 
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I'll never stop being surprised by how much people (including E themself) seem to hate Steve. I feel sorry for the guy. Everyone keeps trying to argue in one way or another that Steve brought it on himself, but the argument just doesn't fit. Freddie and Jason from the slave fair series were at least as brutal and angry as him, most of the "jock" characters at the school were much dumber than him, main characters like Peter was at once point as lacking in confidence as he was. I just don't buy the argument that Steve somehow "deserved" to die more than any one else. All the other men get away with injustices, Steve didn't. Tt was unexpected twist and broke the pattern of the story, which I suspect is the real reason E did it in the first place. All these other arguments about how Steve somehow brought it on himself just seems like after the fact rationalization to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Karma
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:48 am 
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otherguy wrote:
I maintain that every single other male character in the story had more privilege than he did.


Presumably this refers to the privelige of not having been brutally murdered in their own home?

I don't see the argument for him being less privelliged than anybody else. Yes, Freddie and Jason are every bit as brutal and even bigger jerkasses, but they are in a different set of comics. I find no reason to disagree with Mr GP's take on his level of wealth. It equates with Jeff, whose finances do not seem amazing yet both bought a girl with their allowance. In fact the main thing that Steve was denied was a balanced psychology. He could not handle matters well and the slightest set back was met by heavy drinking and violence, he tried too hard to impress his dominance and as Princess Leia pointed out
"the more you tighten your grip the more (star systems/ slaves) will slip through your fingers"


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 Post subject: Re: Karma
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 5:04 am 
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I don't want to pile on the Steve-lovers of the forum, but I don't understand why people are too worked up about his demise. Who cares if Fred and Jason get away with being assholes while Steve dies? If you are looking for divine justice in these comics, I think you are reading them all wrong :)

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 Post subject: Re: Karma
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:07 am 
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samantha wrote:
If you are looking for divine justice in these comics, I think you are reading them all wrong :)


Very right!!

I don't care about Steve end, I don't like or dislike him: more than the only unprivileged guy, he seems to me like the loser-archetype.

It seems like E created him to represent the "sore loser" that always do some errors, always envy his friend lucks, always do poor figure with girls and get angry.


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 Post subject: Re: Karma
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:02 pm 
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samantha wrote:
I don't want to pile on the Steve-lovers of the forum, but I don't understand why people are too worked up about his demise. Who cares if Fred and Jason get away with being assholes while Steve dies? If you are looking for divine justice in these comics, I think you are reading them all wrong :)


Thats actually my point. It bugs me when people talk about Steve's death as if it was "justice" there is not supposed to be justice in this fantasy world. thats not why I come here. :-)


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 Post subject: Re: Karma
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:29 am 
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Fave character: Anna
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Quote:
It bugs me when people talk about Steve's death as if it was "justice" there is not supposed to be justice in this fantasy world. thats not why I come here.


For now you are the only one, who cares about Steve so much. The rest don't care or like that (I liked that). So, no offence, but you'll have to deal with it. Steve is gone. Annie prevails. :anna:


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 Post subject: Re: Karma
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:14 am 
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Well we talk about Steve deserving to die or not, but also forget a very important point here. The comic is called Karma. So there is some kind of payback and divine justice here. But for whom? If we look at the third act, we see that Anna, Maria, and the two mafia boys helping Anna are the losers at the end.

Cathy's end is controversial though. She starts as an unofficial slave to Anna and friends, and ends up as a unofficial slave to Zalupatsin. I'm not sure if it is a good ending for Cathy, but certainly it is not as a bad as the others. Actually from the way Zalupatsin talks to her, I got the impression that she is the winner in all this. Perhaps she can become the favorite of the boss back in Sokoneryaska :D

So Anna and MAria are certainly getting what they deserve. Maria is a bitch as we saw in For Sale and here. One can say that she paid for the way she treated the spa slave for example. Anna did a lot of bad things and good things. If she deserved this, let's think about why? Was it killing Steve? I don't think so. My reading is that she deserved this ending because she treated men badly, including Peter and the mafia boys at the chop shop. She used them and manipulated them, so at the end she was "used" in a more crude way.


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 Post subject: Re: Karma
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:39 pm 
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It's worth noting that the comic is called "Karma" rather than "Justice." While there's little of the latter in E.'s universe, there's plenty of the former. Rather than a human invention it functions as a sort of self-sustaining mechanism in which everybody gets a ride on the wheel not necessarily for what they've actually done or not done so much as an inevitable result of who and where they are. It's not necessary to believe in any cosmic intelligence to witness the operation of this cycle in life. As an atheist myself, I do not believe in fate per se, but I do see an unpredictable tendency for human actions to result in unintended consequences, some desired and some not.


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 Post subject: Re: Karma
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:40 pm 
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Or, as Clint Eastwood so memorably put it in Unforgiven: "Deserve's got nothing to do with it."


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 Post subject: Re: Karma
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:39 am 
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ernestgreene wrote:
Or, as Clint Eastwood so memorably put it in Unforgiven: "Deserve's got nothing to do with it."

yeah but it was called unforgiven. This is called karma. :D

Tho I agree with you re difference between justice and karma. If Karma exists, then Cathy should become a princess in the next comic. She went thru a lot :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Karma
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:43 pm 
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MrGoodPecker wrote:
ernestgreene wrote:
Or, as Clint Eastwood so memorably put it in Unforgiven: "Deserve's got nothing to do with it."

yeah but it was called unforgiven. This is called karma. :D

Tho I agree with you re difference between justice and karma. If Karma exists, then Cathy should become a princess in the next comic. She went thru a lot :lol:



Well, I'm for seeing Anna having to serve Cathy, and if Maria is in the next comic her too.

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 Post subject: Re: Karma
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:00 pm 
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MrGoodPecker wrote:
ernestgreene wrote:
Or, as Clint Eastwood so memorably put it in Unforgiven: "Deserve's got nothing to do with it."

yeah but it was called unforgiven. This is called karma. :D

Tho I agree with you re difference between justice and karma. If Karma exists, then Cathy should become a princess in the next comic. She went thru a lot :lol:


If karma existed, rivers would have run red with the blood of those who have murdered/tortured all dem slaves.
Karma is (based on my scant experiences with Buddhism) cause and effect coming back to get you over at least one reincarnation. It's more a clever way to explain why bad/good things happen to good/bad people and why we should be nice. And this was the way cause and effect screwed over Steve.
Made for a good story though :-)

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 Post subject: Re: Karma
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:38 pm 
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I should remind you that Karma was actually the alternative title for BG9 Vengeance. (See this earlier post) I'm such a lazy slacker, I used it later for the Anna comic instead of finding a better one. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Karma
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:07 pm 
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Lest there be any doubt, I was speaking in a metaphorical sense. While I appreciate the Buddhist way of thinking more than that of most religions, which is still not exactly high praise, I wasn't referring to the complex metaphysics behind the actual theory.

In fact, it wouldn't really apply here. As has been pointed out, karma is actually what you get in your next life for something you did or didn't do in your last life, so in a sense it's less about getting what you have coming than about getting what somebody else had coming, so in that great cosmic way, it all works out.

It's kind of a neat idea, but still a fairy tale by my way of thinking about How Things Work, which is far more random.

I've often been asked, as a lifelong (but polite) atheist if I really believe that a universe so complex as the one we live in and the species into which we've evolved (a separately debatable proposition as human beings are about the only convincing argument against evolutionary theory I've ever encountered) could all have come about just by accident.

I invariably reply that I consider that the kindest explanation. If somebody thought this whole mess up and figured it was a good idea make it real, he, she or it should has richly earned a pink slip.

Anyway, it's a great title for almost anything and am happy to accept it as E. explains it. As a writer, I'll recycle a catchy title rather than think of a new one any time I can get away with it.


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 Post subject: Re: Karma
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:13 pm 
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Im hoping the next anna comic will be mafia themed with kidnapping and blackmail and curved swords

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 Post subject: Re: Karma
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:27 pm 
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ernestgreene wrote:
I've often been asked, as a lifelong (but polite) atheist if I really believe that a universe so complex as the one we live in and the species into which we've evolved (a separately debatable proposition as human beings are about the only convincing argument against evolutionary theory I've ever encountered) could all have come about just by accident.

I invariably reply that I consider that the kindest explanation. If somebody thought this whole mess up and figured it was a good idea make it real, he, she or it should has richly earned a pink slip.


Giving God the Pink Slip? Richard Dawkins would love to recycle that as a book title :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Karma
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:17 am 
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I'd love to see Cathy stick her fist in Anna's ass after she's done pulling a train. Well Cathy or Maria, they both have reasons to get back at Anna. I hope she continues her punishment in the next issue, along with her mom.


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 Post subject: Re: Karma
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:37 pm 
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Oh yeah! I forgot about Anna's mom! (I'm a big fan of E but I haven't memorized everything to, say, Gatolica level yet. She is awesome at that.) I'd love to see Anna and her Mom forced into some lovemaking during the reunion.


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