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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 2:02 am 
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MrGoodPecker wrote:
someoneelse wrote:
With this choice, Erenisch didn't diverge from other Fansadox artists; he followed their lead. Anna's twists ARE the predictable formula. It IS the checklist.

Predondo's Harem Horror series is ostensibly male-dom. But as it develops, a female character is introduced, Ms. Jazmin, who is as dominant and sadistic as any of the male characters, but more powerful by means of her beauty. She is cleverer, more strong-willed, and more sexually aggressive than any of the males. She enjoys teasing men with her gorgeous body. It's male-dom except for one woman who is supreme over all.

Fernando's Confiscated Twins series is ostensibly male-dom. But as it develops, a female character is introduced, Amanda, who is as dominant and sadistic as any of the male characters, but more powerful by means of her beauty. She is cleverer, more strong-willed, and more sexually aggressive than any of the males. She enjoys teasing men with her gorgeous body. It's male-dom except for one woman who is supreme over all.

Moffett's Martian series is ostensibly male-dom. But a female character is introduced, Colonel Wasp, who is as dominant and sadistic as any of the male characters, but more powerful by means of her beauty. She is cleverer, more strong-willed, and more sexually aggressive than any of the males. She enjoys teasing men with her gorgeous body. It's male-dom except for one woman who is supreme over all.

Bored yet? I am.


I find it interesting that you put all these examples and say that Erenisch follows them.

The comic Anna was introduced as a dom female character is the Birthday Gift 5, which was number 221, released in February 2010. Just go back see in what order the comics you have listed came out, and you will realize who is following who.

I'm not foollshly suggesting that a dom female is something never seen in a male-dom BDSM comic of course. It is an overused cliche. but the examples you have provided amused me a little. :D


I don't think that conclusion follows. I chose the examples I did because they were on my internal hard drive, rather than being archived on one of my externals; and the older a comic is, the less likely it's on my internal drive.

So a quick skim through the archive on the external gives us a few more examples. I'll add them onto the end of this post.

Meet one of the tedious cliches of BDSM comics: the Fansadominatrix. In a comic where innocent females are sexually assaulted or enslaved, the Fansadominatrix is supreme ever everyone. She's as dominant and sadistic as any of the male characters, but more powerful by means of her beauty. She is cleverer, more strong-willed, and more sexually aggressive than any of the males. She enjoys teasing men with her gorgeous body, and when she subjugates women, they submit to her more fully than they would to any man.

The Fansadominatrix is gorgeous. She is exotic in an indeterminate way but not clearly ethnic -- olive-complexioned, perhaps eastern European or Middle Eastern. She's got long dark wavy hair. There are some exceptions to this, two comics I saw had blonde Fansadominatrices, one had a black woman.

If Fansadox cliches teach us anything, it's that sexually dominant beautiful women, if they appear in more than one comic, are invincible. On those rare occasions, like SS Prison Camp and The Formula, when a dominatrix character is made vulnerable, it's depicted essentially offscreen, with only a few frames depicting her difficulties, and it's no more than a brief interlude before the woman regains her Supremacy. When she escapes -- as she always, always does -- the time when she appeared to be losing is actually testimony to her Power and Fortitude: No man shall ever break Her!

And when she escapes, she exacts vengeance upon her captor, in the form of genital violence. Every time.

To the best of my knowledge, Birthday Gift 7 was the first time in Fansadox history where a comic ended with a recurring femdom character suffering as much as run in her stocking, a broken high heel, or a smear in her mascara. There had never been a comic ending like that.

Except Erenisch followed through by following the same shopworn rules everybody else follows. What appeared to be a bold departure from the dull cliché only turned out to be a difference in the location of a chapter break.

Now, here's a very far from complete list of Fansadominatrices pulled from my archive.

  • Keisha, from Igor's Big Game Hunting.
  • Ms. Wentworth, from Merrick's Librarian series.
  • Empress Poppea, from Pelle's Slaves of Rome.
  • An unnamed dominatrix in Amorim's Slaves of Meszria.
  • Mistress Rosa in Fernando's Cheerleaders.
  • Mrs. Kurnikova in Fernando's Hideaway Island.
  • Headmistress Bishop in Roberts' Dark Cabin.
  • Danielle, in Roberts' SS Prison Camp, who castrates men.
  • None of the characters in Dejan's Balkans Horror seem to have names, but there are two untouchable dominatrices, the aunt and the blonde.
  • Lisbeth in Borstel's Lady in Chains.
  • Yuri in Roberts' Cheerleaders in Chains.
  • The Sultana in Ferres' Death in the Harem.
  • Zatana in Albert's Island of Damnation.
  • Natascha in Templeton's Somalian Waters.
  • There's a supreme dominatrix in Roberts' Secret Police, where the characters don't seem to be named.

In Casette's The Formula, the entire comic is spent in a basement-like dungeon, with a man interrogating a woman. He doesn't break her. Turns out the whole thing was a test; she emerges, is declared a supreme bad-ass, calls the man a fag and a queer, and kicks him in the balls. The end.

And on and on and on and on and on and on.

I only added the violence-to-male-genitalia criterion when I was already 2/3rds of the way through the ones I went through, but it was present in several others: if a man inconveniences a Fansadominatrix, she gets the upper hand and inflicts violence on his man-parts.

The comics representing this cliche date back to the issues numbered in the low double digits, and possibly before then -- my collection isn't complete, especially with the crudely illustrated early issues.

Something else occurred to me. In the discussions, Anna's name has come up frequently, and often in heated discussions. This has been used as evidence to the effect that Erenisch has handled her story well. But check Star Wars forums some time; the name that comes up most often in reference to The Phantom Menace, and in heated discussions, is Jar-Jar Binks.


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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 7:06 am 
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The character type you identify as fansadominatrix is interesting, and you apparently did a thorough research on this. Thanks for all that, because I don't have any of these comics you mention (except for a cheerleaders episode but it did not have the character you speak of).

It is all neat and good but I don't think the existence of an overused character type in an E comic makes it any predictable or boring. If you think about it, all the characters in all the comics are stereotypes of some kind. E has the good girl who is too beautiful but not aware of her sexuality, the haughty girl who knows that she is attractive and uses it, the very obedient slave who accepts her fate, the defiant slave who wants to escape, the violent activist/rebel, the puppygirl, the ponygirl, etc... These are all overused characters if you take the simplistic view. It is like in any other story, TV show, movie. You have to have types the audience easily recognizes.

In Erenischverse, however, these types are always very original, realistic and interesting in my opinion. And not only in the genre E works with but in general. Who thinks that Maggie is ordinary, boring and cliche? She is a wonderfully complex character but in your classification one can call her a stereotype. Sherry is also much more than the "cliche character type" she is based on, and so is Anna. Call me an elitist (or E-litist) if you like but I think E is leagues ahead of any other fansadox artist in terms of storytelling, character development and innovative ideas, and his/her stories render the rest of them pretty pointless for me.

For example you mention the comic "the formula" (I have never seen it). You describe it as "the entire comic is spent in a basement-like dungeon, with a man interrogating a woman. He doesn't break her. Turns out the whole thing was a test; she emerges, is declared a supreme bad-ass, calls the man a fag and a queer, and kicks him in the balls. The end.". That is exactly why I read only E. You lost me at "the entire comic is spent in a dungeon".

So boring and cliche. There is no "story" here, just pointless torture. I'm not interested in this type of thing. I maybe alone in this but I like the relationships between characters male and female, their feelings and thoughts, their reactions to the cruelty they are being subjected to... And I really like the Anna character. I always thought that she is not born this way but she has some interesting background story that made her this way. And I'm intrigued about her attitude towards life. She has a hidden scar and it makes her interesting to me. I want to know why a rich eastern European girl with BDSM modeling career travels to Pussiana all alone, and joins an ordinary high school? Why is she so experienced in sex and S&M? What was the real reason she was interested in Peter, and why did she do "that" at the end of BG9? She is no two dimensional example of a "fansadominatrix" imo.

(Finally I think that the fansadominatrix stereotype you so thoroughly described and neatly named is so because she is actually a single character. Most of the stories you list are stories written by the editor nuira. She mentioned in the dofantasy forum that most of the templeton, fernando, predondo, moffet, etc stories are hers. I'm sure it is the same with all the new artists who are making their debuts. Nuria likes that character and puts her in every comic. it is as simple as that.)

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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:39 pm 
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When you talked about the stereotypes in stories, I remembered one of my favorite topics back in the old forum. The original post was added by "fanta" who was listed as a guest there. I'm not sure if he/she joined this forum as a member but I think it is a great post. I think it fits here so I'm quoting it.

original thread here: http://erenischcomics.adultforumhost.com/287482.html


Quote:
Character and story types in EC
At the risk of sounding pretentious, I'm going to do a simple analysis of the structure of E's comics.

I have seen that many other members are making the distinction between story-types of EC. Main consensus is about two types: Universe-centric and character-centric. I have a more detailed categorization.

1-Character-centric story (C/u): Where the main focus is on a single character or a group of characters. We see a lot of dialog and thought bubbles, a lot of character development. We generally come to care about these characters most, because E has a talent to make them lovable.
(eg: Maggie and friends in Birthday Gift series in general)

2-Universe-centric story (U/c): Where the main purpose of the story is to show and expand the "Ereniverse", letting us know about the rules, laws, customs and social transformation of the alternative future EC depicts. Characters are there, but they are not on the screen to make us like them, just to show us around. It is often because it is so packed with great ideas, the plot has little room to develop
(eg: Slave Fairs stories)

3-Character-Universe story (C-U): A masterful marriage of the two categories above. In these types, the characters are central to the story and they are well developed, but they are also instrumental in showing the certain aspects of the universe around them. These stories often take place in a limited area but expands the ereniverse considerably.
(eg: Kimberly in the Kennels, Victoria in the Clinic)

-------------------

There are also several types of characters I identified. Please add if you think I missed any.

The innocent, shy girl: As a product of the CFSL led educational system, most of the girls often accept their fate without question. They are the most obedient ones.
(eg: Maggie, Tawnie...)

The rich bitch: Despite the cold hard realities of the CFSL, some girls think they are untouchable because their family has money. They are generally defiant and hard to tame if enslaved.
(eg: Sherry... her sister Cherry on the other hand is an innocent-shy type)

The untouchable tease: Some girls are indeed untouchable because they are really rich or laws protect them. They often act like sluts or tease the males around them without punishmnet
(eg: Anna...)

The idealist: Some girls still believe in gender equality, or at least some kind of fairer treatment of the female population. They work hard to earn their freedom, and try to change others behavior towards women but often fell prey to men because of their defiant behavior.
(eg: Chrissy...)

The career woman: Some women work hard to make a living, and they stay free by become indispensible for their employers. They maybe idealists, but what they really care is to get by without becoming a slave. They often fail.
(eg. Kimberly...)

The old ones: Not necessarily old, but they were born and educated in the pre-law era, or maybe come from a no-law country. They are often frustrated by the new system.
(eg: Regina, Carol...)

The pure: Some girls seem to be raised with minimum exposure to the hard realities of inequality. They are often the daughters of female-rights activists or men who love their children.
(eg: Gwen, Nathali...)

The bargain-slut: These women think that by giving the men what they want occasionally, they can be spared the worse fate of slavery. They are often wrong.
(eg: Cathy, Lucy, Sylvia...

The traitor: Some females are used by the system to enforce and sustain it. The are subdued by a kind of brainwashing, and they don't really question the inequality any mre
(eg: Molly, Lidia...)

The rebel: These women are generally outlaws, actively seeking the destruction of the gender inequality system of the CFSL. They are defiant to the end.
(eg: Erinn, Victoria...




I guess "the untouchable tease" fanta defines can be similar to fansadominatrix someonelse talks about. But she does not have to be a dominatrix.

I think Anna has traits from "the untouchable tease", the "rich bitch", "the traitor" and "the bargain-slut. An interesting mix, and that is probably why she is a complex character.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 11:25 am 
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MrGoodPecker wrote:
another axiom: Given enough time, every Fansadox artist will eventually do something Erenisch have already done a while ago ;)



You see what I mean? Here you have it... :D

http://img276.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=087762508_WHITE_FEATHER_008_123_224lo.jpg

This is from Cagri's new comic. Compare this image to The Stables page 29.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:24 am 
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Sorry to change the topic, but what do you think Anna's ultimate fate will be? Because for some reason, I could actually see her getting away with it. Punished to some extent possibly, but of all characters introduced so far I think Anna has the best chances of making it out of it with her head still attached to her shoulders and all limbs intact.

Look at it neutrally. Anna is drop-dead sexy, and yet able to walk about freely, confidently and safely in the school. The same school that, oddly enough apparently not until Peter gets his first slave, quickly and continiously descended into absolute anarchy, where even the free girls, student and teacher alike, became little more than rape-toys. And you think Anna would have been safe simply because she was an exchange-student from a country where slavery wasn't legal? The way I see it, Anna was more than that, she has to be very important, as in her fate might cause an international incident that would cause a lot of people a lot of serious trouble. Another indication of her importance is that despite the callous disregard for females, 'Vengeance' clearly shows that the search for Anna is not only still going on even after so much time has passed, they actually put so much effort into it that Steve, who while perhaps not completely brain-dead can hardly be called the sharpest knife in the drawer, felt threatened enough that he tried to get rid of her.

I know how women are seen in Pussiana, but Anna is obviously important, and clearly impervious to being enslaved. Not only that, but she had been held prisoner for an extended period of time, and was about to be murdered. Technically she has every right to call self-defense, seeing that she was a free woman with human rights. While her actions were clearly sadistic beyond basic self-preservation, she has a justification for it, not to mention that it's not clear just how much could really be found out after Anna torched the place. The testicles are soft tissue, and while I'm no expert in burnt corpses, I think it's possible that, if the fire burns hot and long enough they might be burned away completely, making the castration impossible to prove. If Anna is truly as important as she seems, then in light of what Anna illegally had to go through it's possible that the entire affair will be swept under the rug, and Anna get away with, if anything at all, a slap on the wrist. Explaining to a country that does not permit enslavement of its subjects that you executed one of their people because she killed a man who kidnapped, r@ped, tortured and almost killed her is a political sh*tstorm of epic proportions, and for some reason I can't imagine that Pussiana would be willing to damage their relationships with another country to this extent just for the sake of one juvenile idiot who blatantly broke his own country's law. Countries generally do not risk embargos and inflations of prices on their imports for petty criminals, especially not for dead ones.

I'm not saying that it's impossible that Anna suffers a gruesome fate, I'm merely stating that she has a realistic chance of getting out of the mess even if she is caught. Even her arson and car-theft can be interpreted as actions taken in a hazy state of mind after suffering through her ordeal, destroying the site of her torture and fleeing. We know that's not the case, but with a good lawyer I can see Anna walking away from the legal consequences of her mess, perhaps deported back to her country and banned from entering Pussiana, but otherwise fine.

Now I don't think this will be the precedent that will lead a grand revolution that frees all women from the yoke of slavery, and I sincerely doubt that ANY other girl or woman in the future of the series will do anything like that without ending as dog-food, but in my opinion ever since she appeared, Anna has been the exception to the rule when it comes to females. I don't see why that wouldn't extend to the consequences of her... getting even. It would again highlight the extreme difference between her and Pussianian women, and E has already given enough information and trivia that such a thing happening could be explained.

Opinions? Was I wrong with anything I said so far?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:54 am 
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I agree with most of this. I think fire takes care of most evidence of Anna being there, but it does not make it look like it is an accident. First there was the gasoline so the police will realize that the place was set on fire on purpose. Also the car is missing, so there is the theft. If Anna is caught somehow, she will be charged with violent murder and grand theft auto (and grand theft slavegirl), and I think all are huge crimes in Pussiana. Just to remove the slave collar is a huge crime if I remember correctly. And if Anna is caught, she has no way of proving that she was kidnapped and tortured by Steven. Cathy is not a good witness, she never saw anything and she is also complicit in the arson and GTA.

So I don't think Anna can get away with the crimes she committed and her immunity cannot save her after all this. She murdered a male citizen and damaged property. They will not probably attempt to enslave her but execute her immediately.

But again I think it is hard to tie Anna to the crimes committed (if she was not caught on tape or something). Nobody knew she was there. She is not a Pussiana citizen so it is unlikely that the state has her DNA samples to match at the crime scene. it is possible to identify her if she runs a red light or stops at a gas station with the stolen car, and I think a police state like Pussiana would have millions of cameras everywhere. But I think Anna is smart enough to know that so she'd ditch the car before it is too late or take necessary precautions.

I think the worst fate in this falls on Cathy, who will be definitely fucked one way or another if she is caught. And if she is not, I think her fate maybe worse as she is the only one to tie Anna to the crime. I think she must escape and crawl under a rock in a wilderness for forty years if she wants to survive after all this.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:11 am 
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My question, and I appologize if Erenisch already said this somewhere else, is just this; is Steve actually dead? Yes she said he is dead and she did casterate him but we never saw his body, or had what happened in the basement explained at all. Yes they burned down the house but if he was in the basement he may have had time to drag hmself out.

On a personal note I think a super pissed off, eunuch Steve chasing Anna and cathy around, especially if they hooked up with a femdom sect of the FLF, would make for an interesting comic.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:48 pm 
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Bangerman wrote:
...I think a police state like Pussiana would have millions of cameras everywhere.

I know this is a bit off-topic but I don't think Pussiana is a police state. Or a totalitarian regime or any other 'negative' type of governmental system. It is only the slave-girls who are oppressed. Ordinary citizens are quite free. Nobody has camera's in peoples homes, nobody is denouncing anybody else, the security at the school seems to be less than exist at a modern high school. In a legal sense even free women are not oppressed. All the trials and tribulations free girls go through are caused by the legal system looking the other way rather than specifically targeting them. Individual men and the organizations they create are the ones oppressing free women.


(sorry, back to how we can make Anna pay for her willful independence in thwarting her kidnapping and r@pe) :twisted:

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:55 pm 
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On this one, I am going to have to disagree with Dr White. There are several things that suggest there must be something to bangerman's comment.

1) The Bureau of Female Affairs. Within this organisation, we have the elements of both Police Force and Civil Service combined. Three European nations had similar organisations between the twenties and forties- You can guess who they were and NONE of them were democratic

2) It would take the apparatus of a Police State to enforce the laws (especially THE Law) Whist Dr White is entirely correct to say that it is only the female part of the population who suffer any sort of totalitarian oppression they are implied to constitute well over50% and quite possibly 75% of the total population though a much lower part of the citizen population. To maintain the power of a few over the many like this would require draconian measures and possibly a secret police (see point !)

3) There is no evidence of an really functioning democracy. Politicians are universally believed to be corrupt and useless when they are mentioned at all. To be fair that probably equates for modern democracies like the U.K, (U.S.A?) Greece, Spain and Italy.

4) At some point they entirely disenfranchised most of the population.and stripped them of most of the "inalienable" human rights


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:01 pm 
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@ Bangerman: First, if Anna is caught, she will be asked where she's been. From BG9 we know she's been missing over two weeks, and I'm fairly certain that left marks on her body. I actually do think the BFA have Anna's DNA. She was clearly marked HANDS OFF, as I noted above, and we saw in BG4 that you can pretty much walk into a registration-office with a free girl on your shoulder, and walk back out with a slave. So unless they had her data there to ensure sirens would blare the moment someone tried it with Anna, or any legally Free Woman or immune Alien, there would be far too big a risk of accidental illegal enslavement if they did not have that data. My guess is anyone trying to register a Free Woman, note the capital letters, will be turned away and possibly fined for attempted kidnapping. Not much, but maybe the equivalent to a few hundred bucks. Those that try doing so with someonee like Anna, who has immunity, would probably be arrested and face much larger fines, due to the other country probably taking offense.
And if they can't prove Anna was in the house, they can't prove she set it on fire, or killed the inhabitant. All they can prove is that she found a car with a slavegirl in it, and took it for a joyride. Proving it was Anna would pretty much invariably lead to proving she was a captive there. Not to mention if Anna is as smart as she seems, she will have made photographic evidence of her injuries, and more importantly the writing on her body, before cleaning up. With the school providing samples it will be easy to prove that it was Steve who wrote on her body, which supports her statement.
And again, the girl is rich, and from another country. She would be locked up until evidence was gathered, and while that was happening her own embassy would demand to speak with her. They can't just execute someone like Anna without her country's consent, diplomatic immunity, and Agent Cumgulper clearly stated she had it, is still diplomatic immunity. They can kick her out of Pussiana, but only her own country has the right to put her on trial, and there her odds are infinitely better, both because they will not dismiss her statements and because her family is probably very influential there.

@ ooragoth
We don't have the Word of God, aka Erenisch, yet, but it's a pretty safe bet. Even if we assume Anna only wrestled Steve to the ground, cleanly removed his 'block and tackle' in one cut, and left him there rather than knife him down with all her fury until he resembles hamburge-meat, fact is that the penis is (together with other minor organs such as heart, lungs, brain and liver) one of the parts of the body with the greatest blood-circulation. With both penis and testicles severed, Steve would have bled out in minutes. If we assume he had a boner at the time, which is likely, the blood-flow would have been even greater, and his odds even lower. Were I a gambling man, I would put a lot of money on 'dead as a doornail'.

@ Dr.White & Rufus
Dr.White, not every state that uses cameras has a 'negative type of Governmental System'. England for example. You can't walk through London without being filmed a few hundred times, yet would you call England's system 'negative'? And of course there are no cameras in people's homes, Pussiana would use their cameras to track females, the type of spying you seem to think of is used by governments who distrust their citizens and think of every single one of them as a potential spy/traitor/danger. Pussiana would have their cameras installed in streets, roads and parks, linked with the private cameras of shops and businesses in order to easier locate free women. And they have the collars to track slaves. We saw in Agent Cumgulper against the Cult that most slaves don't seem to know about the tracking-chip, and even those that know would probably be unable to remove them, so there's really not much point in bugging private homes. I actually think the part of Section 2 Paragrapd d) about the removal of the collars refers to free women and males rather than the slaves themselves, as if I designed those things I'd have some steel-cable or the likes in there to prevent unauthorized or even entirely accidental removal.
I agree with Rufus on points 1) and 3), though we don't know much about politics. Males have the right to vote, that's some element of democracy, otherwise it could be similar to the democracies of America and Europe, where most people vote regularly (or not), and for the rest of the time have very little to do with politics, so unless you're politically active or at least interested, you only hear of politicians in jokes or scandals. As to point 2 however, while I agree with the draconian part, I don't think there's a 'Secret Police'. From what I've seen so far, the BFA pretty much ARE the police, and even if there is another, something we've seen no indication of so far, there is absolutely no need to act in secret or keep one's existence or actions unknown. As for 4), there is a easy way to do that without rewriting the entire constitution. Hitler showed how, rather than rewrite your entire lawbook to discriminate against a specific group of people, simply redefine the term 'human', and once that's done the other rules simply won't apply. Yes Rufus, I know Hitler was a dictator, but the point stands. You can have a democracy even if a large percentage of the population can't vote, that was in fact the original democracy. In ancient Greece, where democracy was invented (or so the tourist-guides claim) you could vote if you were a male citizen of age. Slaves and women could not vote, yet it was still considered democratic. See, it's all in the details.
Um, one last mention of the original topic you two were discussing, the cameras. I personally do think that, at least in major cities, there are a lot of them. Do remember, in 'Sluts in Training - The Kennels' the man from Cummpaws CuntCatchers said that through the database of the BFA, he could not only select but also locate and track basically any female he wants. As free women don't seem to carry beacons, my guess is they do it with, amongst other things, camera-identification.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:54 pm 
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Azachiel wrote:
@ Dr.White & Rufus
I agree with Rufus on points 1) and 3), though we don't know much about politics. Males have the right to vote, that's some element of democracy, otherwise it could be similar to the democracies of America and Europe, where most people vote regularly (or not), and for the rest of the time have very little to do with politics, so unless you're politically active or at least interested, you only hear of politicians in jokes or scandals. As to point 2 however, while I agree with the draconian part, I don't think there's a 'Secret Police'. From what I've seen so far, the BFA pretty much ARE the police, and even if there is another, something we've seen no indication of so far, there is absolutely no need to act in secret or keep one's existence or actions unknown. As for 4), there is a easy way to do that without rewriting the entire constitution. Hitler showed how, rather than rewrite your entire lawbook to discriminate against a specific group of people, simply redefine the term 'human', and once that's done the other rules simply won't apply. Yes Rufus, I know Hitler was a dictator, but the point stands. You can have a democracy even if a large percentage of the population can't vote, that was in fact the original democracy. In ancient Greece, where democracy was invented (or so the tourist-guides claim) you could vote if you were a male citizen of age. Slaves and women could not vote, yet it was still considered democratic. See, it's all in the details..


Some excellent points here and if I were to quibble it would be on minor points. Your rebuttal of my point 4 by citing Classical Athens is totally fair and I accept the point with good grace

I also accept your point about point 2 and the public vision of politicians. I may have overlooked the significant difference between being democratic and living in a democracy. As a Brit I would question how democratic the system here is, but it is a "democracy"

Where I would disagree is your point about the BFA being too public to qualify as a secret police. Lidia works for the public face of the BFA she is integral to the good P.R of returning tearful stray slaves to their "concerned" Masters In that sense she is not concerned with the more shadowy aspects of it and cannot really be seen as offering much evidence either way. Holes in the Hotel was involved this area and so can be seen as suggestive (but as we know nothing of what sort of jobs she was involved in we can say no more than that.)

Also "Secret Police forces tend to be very, and perhaps surprisingly, public. All have big Headquarters buildings all are well known to the citizens and many have a standard "uniform" of sorts (The fedora and leather trench coat of the Gestapo, the shell suits of Ceaucescu's men and the black jackets of the CHEKA) The secret comes from how they do their investigations rather than any denial of their existence. How secret was the KGB?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:34 pm 
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Where I would disagree is your point about the BFA being too public to qualify as a secret police. Lidia works for the public face of the BFA she is integral to the good P.R of returning tearful stray slaves to their "concerned" Masters In that sense she is not concerned with the more shadowy aspects of it and cannot really be seen as offering much evidence either way. Holes in the Hotel was involved this area and so can be seen as suggestive (but as we know nothing of what sort of jobs she was involved in we can say no more than that.)

Also "Secret Police forces tend to be very, and perhaps surprisingly, public. All have big Headquarters buildings all are well known to the citizens and many have a standard "uniform" of sorts (The fedora and leather trench coat of the Gestapo, the shell suits of Ceaucescu's men and the black jackets of the CHEKA) The secret comes from how they do their investigations rather than any denial of their existence. How secret was the KGB?


I'm not saying that the BFA doesn't do things that would qualify it as a secret police, I was merely remarking that, at least until now, we have not seen ANY other type of law-enforcement. I mean the BFA even handled the 'missing person'-case for an alien who could not be enslaved at all! To me it simply appears like the BFA isn't a secret police, they are THE police. Secret police implys there's a 'public' one as well. Again, the BFA could probably qualify as a secret police, but so far they seem to be that and official police rolled in one.

As for Lidia, I must confess I haven't read Slavecop 2 yet, so I'm not exactly up to date, but is she really the public face? To me it seemed like she was merely a normal, if efficient, slavecop whom Erenisch grants appearances because she's a familiar face. I haven't really seen anything that suggested she held any kind of position in the BFA beyond that of officer and sextoy.

On a different note, is Britain really? Last I heard, it was a Constitutional Monarchy.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:14 am 
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Lidia is doing well in the BFA but she is not the "face" of it I was actually referring to the SEFR as opposed to her personally.

As to the Britain thing (this is way off topic so I will be brief) it is a constitutional monarchy which holds free and fair elections. The issue I would have is more apathy (we had an election a couple of months ago where only 18- 20% bothered to vote) and the fact that Politicians are viewed with increasing contempt and cauing "extreme" minor parties to get more publicity.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:53 am 
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Azachiel wrote:

I'm not saying that the BFA doesn't do things that would qualify it as a secret police, I was merely remarking that, at least until now, we have not seen ANY other type of law-enforcement. I mean the BFA even handled the 'missing person'-case for an alien who could not be enslaved at all! To me it simply appears like the BFA isn't a secret police, they are THE police. Secret police implys there's a 'public' one as well. Again, the BFA could probably qualify as a secret police, but so far they seem to be that and official police rolled in one.

well BFA is the bureau of FEMALE affairs. I see them the enforceurs of the law of slavery so looking for a female even she is in not a citizen makes sense. If somebody kidnapped her, it will violate the slavery law, and may be other international treaties.

If there is anything like Cheka or Gestapo, that means a police branch that catches the enemies of the regime. There can be two types of enemies of the regime. The FLF types females and males who are against the female slavery. It is possible that the BFA takes care of the first type and another police organisation takes care of the males. (I say this because Lidia says that female slavecops have no authority to arrest male citizens)


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:38 pm 
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bacchus wrote:
It is possible that the BFA takes care of the first type and another police organisation takes care of the males. (I say this because Lidia says that female slavecops have no authority to arrest male citizens)

I believe that a Bouncie story that has been canonized depicts her unit being instrumental in taking down male violators of the slavery laws. Smugglers as well as some anti-slavery types. Along with SlaveCop we see that the Slave Agents are used as tools to expose the criminals who circumvent The Law, and then the male Agents swoop in and make the arrests.


(and take all the credit) 8-)

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:27 pm 
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In SC 2 there is "Operation Sea Breeze" where smugglers are ignored by the BFA because they are after a bigger fish and there are legal complications. Otherwise SEFR would presumably have arrested them all and cleaned out the problem.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:22 pm 
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Don't forget, the BFA has an intelligence department. I wonder if we'll see more of them in the upcoming Minerva comic.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 9:36 pm 
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someoneelse wrote:
There was a tv series where the fans really liked one supporting character. The showrunner got tired of hearing people asking to see more of him. He said in an interview that if people don't stop asking to see more of the character, he would kill the character off. He did. He killed the character off to spite the character's fans. The character's death didn't serve the story in any way. The showrunner believed that punishing the audience was good storytelling. He was an idiot.


What TV series are you talking about?


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