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 Post subject: Zalupatsin
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:59 pm 
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I already mentioned on the Karma page that I like the bratva boss Zalupatsin. I think he is a great character and deserves his own topic.

He is one the best male character Erenisch created so far imho. Very complicated and unpredictable.He has the best lines too. great black humor.

I can't wait for Karma 2.


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 Post subject: Re: Zalupatsin
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:46 am 
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I also like Mr Zalupatsin: it's perfect as a mafia boss: very menacing, ugly with his scar but not simply fat or repugnant like ugly men in others fansadox artist.
And the sword (in a near future world like E-world) is an interesting element that distinguish him.

And he has great taste: he fucks Anna :D


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 Post subject: Re: Zalupatsin
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:29 pm 
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Agreed with both. Zalupatsin rules!

Also, what kind of a sword is that? I guess it looks like a islamic or japanese sword because it is not straight. It has weird but cool curves.


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 Post subject: Re: Zalupatsin
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:07 am 
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The sword is very similar to the greek kopis.


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 Post subject: Re: Zalupatsin
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:51 am 
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Lord Wotan wrote:
The sword is very similar to the greek kopis.

Looks like kopis yes and also spanish falcata, but I think the sword is a Turkish yatagan if you look the handle.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yataghan


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 Post subject: Re: Zalupatsin
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:19 am 
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bacchus wrote:
I think the sword is a Turkish yatagan


You are absolutely correct bacchus, I am not claiming any insight into the inner working Of E's mind here, I base this partly on the design and partly on Mr Zapultsin himself- if you recall he explains how he got it off an "Ottohun elite commando" which sounds very similar to the Yataguni armed Ottoman Janissary at least to my mind.


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 Post subject: Re: Zalupatsin
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:35 am 
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You are awesome guys. Education never ends at the EC forum. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Zalupatsin
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:38 am 
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Rufus wrote:
bacchus wrote:
I think the sword is a Turkish yatagan


You are absolutely correct bacchus, I am not claiming any insight into the inner working Of E's mind here, I base this partly on the design and partly on Mr Zapultsin himself- if you recall he explains how he got it off an "Ottohun elite commando" which sounds very similar to the Yataguni armed Ottoman Janissary at least to my mind.

So the ottohuns are part Ottoman part Hun, are they? Kick-ass combo :) No surprise they defeated the Sukoneryasians.

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 Post subject: Re: Zalupatsin
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:14 pm 
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I figured it was either a yatagan or a shashka. Given what I know, I'm definitely inclined to think it's the former.


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 Post subject: Re: Zalupatsin
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:36 pm 
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He is "funny" too. I loved the way he called Cathy on page 50

"Come on, don't be scared. I won't bite... Well, I decapitate people occasionally, but I never bite them..."


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 Post subject: Re: Zalupatsin
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:20 pm 
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hmmm... well I guess when we compare him to male villains in other porn comics Zalupatsin is more creative an interesting. I can agree he is better than any other "Evil mafia guy" character on Dofantasy, but that's setting the bar ridiculously low. I don't ever compare E-verse characters to other do fantatsy characters anymore. E is in a class all his/her own, the other dofantasy comics are not even close.

But what I have always loved about the E-verse is that the characters seem like real people. The setting of the comics is fantastical, but the people all seemed like some one I might know in my real life. That relatability might be my favorite part about the series.

I didn't find Zalupatsin to be relatable at all. He reminded me of the villain of a James Bond movie. He was too perfect. Zalupatsin seemed to me to be the type of man a woman might fantasize about, impossibly strong, impossibly intelligent, an exaggerated archetype who can break any woman. I got no enjoyment from reading about that. I much prefer stories about a real man with doubts and frustrations, who still manages to break the woman and turn her into a sex slave lol.

I think it would have been much more satisfying if an ordinary man broke Anna. If the only one who can break Anna was this god-like bond villian, that really just re-enforces the idea of how strong Anna was. Its really a compliment to Anna. And if Anna is being complimented then there is no humiliation. I wanted Anna to be broken down by the system, just like every other girl. So Anna would stop thinking she was so special. Zalupatsin just made Anna even more special.

Karma was my least favorite comic in a while, and that was the reason why. None of the characters were relatable they were all these exaggerated extremes who seemed right out of a movie.


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 Post subject: Re: Zalupatsin
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:10 am 
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I disagree with that, and your general idea of Karma. I think Karma has realistic characters as much as any other E comic. Perhaps even more so. I thought Zalupatsin was a very interesting and complex character but I did see him like a bond villain when I read the comic. Certainly not a cartoonish bond villain anyway. He has a very dark vibe and it is expected in a mob boss like him. He has a very interesting background story, and obviously he is not a superman. He has some kind of inferiority complex, we have a glimpse of it when he is talking to Cathy at the end.

I thought everything he says in the comic had meaning and purpose, and I was in awe of E's ability of building a number of subplots effortlessly. As we watch the scared naked girl on camera, we learn a lot about the E universe without knowing it and I thought that was great storytelling.

About the escapism idea I agree with you, but why wouldn't you find Zalupatsin relatable here? Because he looked invincible? Well, I suggest you don't see the new Superman movie then :)


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 Post subject: Re: Zalupatsin
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:18 am 
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Also one thing about Anna. You say it would have been better if Anna was broken by an ordinary guy. I see the appeal but would it really be realistic? Anna proved to be invincible until Karma, and going with the superman example here, she had to be brought down with a piece of Kryptonite. Zalupatsin is that Kryptonite.


EDIT.
Whoa. got an idea. Anna escapes her native land and lives among lesser beings for a while, and was defeated by an evil character coming from her homeland. Too many superman parallels? :D

(sorry, I just saw the Man of Steel yesterday )


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 Post subject: Re: Zalupatsin
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 5:53 am 
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Bangerman wrote:
Whoa. got an idea. Anna escapes her native land and lives among lesser beings for a while, and was defeated by an evil character coming from her homeland. Too many superman parallels? :D

(sorry, I just saw the Man of Steel yesterday )


This analogy makes Zalupatsin General Zod. And I have to say that I find Zod sexy too :oops:



btw the new Zod doesnt say "kneel before zod" in the movie that is disappointing.

But Zalupatsin says "get down on your knees" to Anna, and she does. Greatest moment of the comic imo. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Zalupatsin
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 5:56 am 
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I really have to disagree with a lot of what otherguy said.

I don't find him to be either impossibly intelligent or strong. The character is defined in his soliloquy of backstory which he gives to Anna. He believes himself to be "special" you might even see it as "on a mission from God" he faced death and was the sole survivor. It has given him an ultra confidence that does border on arrogance he no longer recognises those borders of behaviour that hold back normal people because he is no longer "normal". In the same incident he discovered that killing doesn't bother him at all. He is actually simply a homicidal psychopath. His determination became ambition and his willingness to use violence became his method. This is not a super villain this is simply a nasty piece of work.

As for the idea that only a super villain could break Anna , here I think otherguy has misunderstood the plot. Zalputsin is the ONLY reason that Anna ever acted like the Dom bitch. It was a reaction to what he put her through. Once she "escaped" him she swore that nobody else would ever control her like that and the treatment she gave to Peter,Jeff and Steve was a big "single finger salute" to the shadow of Zalputsin. She over compensated by becoming an ultra bitch.

When he found her again, she was forced to return to being her real self.Anna was "broken" a long time ago, indeed given that Zalputsin credits her with being truly psycho, it can be asked if she was ever "Fixed" at all -certainly not since her family was destroyed.

I shall leave this discourse into cheap paperback psychology there whilst the reader is still awake. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Zalupatsin
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 7:39 am 
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I see the point of Otherguy about Zalupatsin been an invincible Bond villain but this is exactly the reason because I find him interesting and realistic.

Reading his story and his speach with Cathy his superiority is to be a pragmatist.

I find him realistic because he fought starting from the low, so now that he is the boss he do everything to BE high and powelful:his dark humor, acting impassive, using a sword instead a normal and more subtle gun, keeping the wife and the daughter of the old boss as trophy, spending many money and time to find a runaway.
While Anna and Maria simply look strong and Zalupatsin despises the dreamers.

He likes that Cathy that adapts to the reality and despises Maria that acts high but is so low to accept to be a fluffer in Anna's gangbang in order to get her revenge.

And he is the contrary of Anna that whore herself to maintain her rich face,in some way the protaginists of this story are a fake strong woman and a real strong man.

And this difference between them seems the worst punishment for Anna.
When an unwary boy like Steve kidnapps her she can keeps her high face, acts as a strong woman and endure everything.
But in front of a life-hardened man that knows everything about her false: she can't put even the slightes resistance and the strong ultra bitch become a scared crying girl, she got down on her knees obeying and begging.
And as Gatolica said Anna's kneeling was the most amazing moment of the comic.


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 Post subject: Re: Zalupatsin
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:05 pm 
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Well, if we are going to go this direction... I don't think a "real strong man" is anything like Zalupatsin. I think its a false ideal.

And the new Superman movie is bad because he kills a guy. Superman doesn't kill people. Thats the rule.


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 Post subject: Re: Zalupatsin
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:37 pm 
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I have to say I've met plenty of guys like this both in real life and in fiction. They're a fixture in gangster stories from Raymond Chandler to Ellmore Leonard. Nothing "super" or "bond villain" about them. They're more like Al Capone or Bugsy Siegel. Their willingness to commit horrifying crimes scares other people which in turn plays to their own delusions of grandeur. I doubt there's a country on earth that doesn't have its share of this type. In fact, I could rattle off a list of them from the evening news, as some gangsters slaughter their way to being heads of state (Robert Mugabe, Idi Amin and the late Doc Duvalier come to mind). Indeed, looking at Vladimir Putin, I see a line of murderous Russian warlords turned rulers stretching back to Ivan Grozny.

Actually, perhaps because of my own background (shudder) I find Zalupatsin not only entertaining but quite credible. I'm probably related to him on my mother's side of the family.


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 Post subject: Re: Zalupatsin
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:09 pm 
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I also disliked the idea that Zalupatsin seems to be the only man in the world who could break Anna. Again, this is a compliment for Anna. If Anna is so "super" that she needed this guy to be her "Kryptonite," then it is much less humiliating for him to break her. The fact that the story needed to introduced an entire new super-macho guy to break Anna just re-enforces the idea that Anna was so frickin special.

I would have much rather Anna was processed and broken as if she were a normal girl, and had her delusions of specialness taken away. As it was, her specialness was reinforced, not diminished. I mean Zalupatsin went to all the trouble to track her down, he seems to think she is this huge prize. Everything in the story reinforces the idea that Anna is somehow more valuable than a normal girl.

Did anyone here read John Norman's Gor series? There was a great 2 parter, (I think it was #7 and #8), in which the toughest girl ever was captured, and a character tried to enslave her. She was a "panther girl" she wore animal skins she swung from vines in the trees, she beat up men and wild animals with her bare hands. You get the idea. Anyways in #7 the guy caught her and then he put her in these heavy iron chains and paraded her around the city like she was the greatest prize in the world, but she did not break and eventually she escaped. Then in #8 he caught her again and he said to her "I had forgotten you are only a woman" the 2nd time, he caught like 19 other girls and he processed them all at once, he tied them in simple rope, he branded them right on the beach, and this girl was branded 17th because she happend to be in that order. He stopped treating her like she was special. The 2nd time he was able to break her. I've been thinking about that story a lot when it comes to the Anna-arc.


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 Post subject: Re: Zalupatsin
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:27 pm 
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I like the Gor example you give. I guess E could do something like that for Anna and it would be plausible when she break. But I always trust in E's judgement because s/he never fails to excite me. And I'm sure the planning is for multiple stories not just for one.

having said that I'd be happy to see a comic with 19 girls including Anna trained by a master. It is easy to add more girls in a story you write, but I guess it is harder when you draw them though. Then again we saw E doing that with many comics. The Stables, the Kennels etc... All favorites for most readers.

back to the issue about Zalupatsin. like Ernestgreen I met people like him. Not bloody criminals exactly like him but people with the megalomaniac personality and scariness. He seems very real to me.



(Also a Man of Steel note: I also want to say that Zod not saying "kneel before Zod" is a disappointment but I was not unhappy to see Superman kill. This is not the golden age of comics any more. Also I think Superman and Zod directly and indirectly killed a lot of people while they were fighting. They smashed skyscrapers to bits dude! :D )


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