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 Post subject: Re: Zalupatsin
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:40 am 
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otherguy wrote:
anyone here read John Norman's Gor series? There was a great 2 parter, (I think it was #7 and #8), in which the toughest girl ever was captured, and a character tried to enslave her. She was a "panther girl" she wore animal skins she swung from vines in the trees, she beat up men and wild animals with her bare hands. You get the idea. Anyways in #7 the guy caught her and then he put her in these heavy iron chains and paraded her around the city like she was the greatest prize in the world, but she did not break and eventually she escaped. Then in #8 he caught her again and he said to her "I had forgotten you are only a woman" the 2nd time, he caught like 19 other girls and he processed them all at once, he tied them in simple rope, he branded them right on the beach, and this girl was branded 17th because she happened to be in that order. He stopped treating her like she was special. The 2nd time he was able to break her. I've been thinking about that story a lot when it comes to the Anna-arc.


Do I get extra perv points for stating that this refers to the stories Captive and Hunters of Gor respectively?

A nice analogy and Hunters is one of my favourite Gor novels. I would have a care about pushing the argument though, as the Panther Girl (Verna), who is accurately described above, then "escapes" again by literally just telling her ridiculously alpha male Master (This guy could give lessons to Emperor Palpatine and Paul Stevenson on being Machiavellian) that she no longer felt able to be his slave and so he lets her go there and then. She lets him keep her entire band of girls along with two other bands whom Tarl Cabot and he had rounded up during the novels actions - a nice parting gift you have to say.


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 Post subject: Re: Zalupatsin
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:46 pm 
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Rufus wrote:
otherguy wrote:
anyone here read John Norman's Gor series? There was a great 2 parter, (I think it was #7 and #8), in which the toughest girl ever was captured, and a character tried to enslave her. She was a "panther girl" she wore animal skins she swung from vines in the trees, she beat up men and wild animals with her bare hands. You get the idea. Anyways in #7 the guy caught her and then he put her in these heavy iron chains and paraded her around the city like she was the greatest prize in the world, but she did not break and eventually she escaped. Then in #8 he caught her again and he said to her "I had forgotten you are only a woman" the 2nd time, he caught like 19 other girls and he processed them all at once, he tied them in simple rope, he branded them right on the beach, and this girl was branded 17th because she happened to be in that order. He stopped treating her like she was special. The 2nd time he was able to break her. I've been thinking about that story a lot when it comes to the Anna-arc.


Do I get extra perv points for stating that this refers to the stories Captive and Hunters of Gor respectively?

A nice analogy and Hunters is one of my favourite Gor novels. I would have a care about pushing the argument though, as the Panther Girl (Verna), who is accurately described above, then "escapes" again by literally just telling her ridiculously alpha male Master (This guy could give lessons to Emperor Palpatine and Paul Stevenson on being Machiavellian) that she no longer felt able to be his slave and so he lets her go there and then. She lets him keep her entire band of girls along with two other bands whom Tarl Cabot and he had rounded up during the novels actions - a nice parting gift you have to say.


Verna! That was it, consider extra perv points awarded. Yeah I never liked the end of that story where he lets her go again. I was hoping no one would bring that up, lol. And your argument about the male master (Marlenius) is very fair, all the same criticisms I leveled against Zalupatsin could go against him. I think Marlenius was supposed to be John Norman's vision of Julius Caesar. Well argued sir.

Still, I think my original idea stands. When Marlenius treated Verna as if she was special, she didn't break. He was only able to break her by treating her like just another insignificant slave girl. That was my favorite part of the story. :-)


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 Post subject: Re: Zalupatsin
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 1:58 pm 
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I never had the chance to read any Gor novels. You guys have any suggestions for a beginner? Looks like there are a lot of books on that universe. I will look for them on my next trip to the used book store.


by the by, I learned that zalupa means "the head of the dick" in Russian. I could not find the meaning of the whole word, but it definitely has to do with a dick. 8-) Any Russian speakers around here to clear that up?


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 Post subject: Re: Zalupatsin
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 2:31 pm 
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It's dick-head all right.

And personally I dislike the idea that slaves are generic and anyone can command them. The work at The Clinic and other experimental slave control technologies suggest that some slaves are more easily controlled than others.

Anna is special, love her or hate her (frankly I like the contradictions in her character) and it's interesting to imagine what Zalupatsin must have done to her to break her so thoroughly, given her ferocious nature.

Some find the idea that any lumpen swinging dick can have any girl he wants, but I like the idea that some slaves require special handling. Were this not true, why would there be slave cops or Fluffers? We see many instances of slave rebellion in E. comics and while most end badly for the slaves, it's clear enough that despite all the social programming not all girls accept their lot in life without resistance.

I figure Anna was probably a handful back home and that may be part of what Zalupatsin found interesting about her in the first place. She's a challenge and that kind of guy tends to want whatever is most difficult to secure.


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 Post subject: Re: Zalupatsin
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 7:37 pm 
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ernestgreene wrote:
It's dick-head all right.

And personally I dislike the idea that slaves are generic and anyone can command them. The work at The Clinic and other experimental slave control technologies suggest that some slaves are more easily controlled than others.

Anna is special, love her or hate her (frankly I like the contradictions in her character) and it's interesting to imagine what Zalupatsin must have done to her to break her so thoroughly, given her ferocious nature.

Some find the idea that any lumpen swinging dick can have any girl he wants, but I like the idea that some slaves require special handling. Were this not true, why would there be slave cops or Fluffers? We see many instances of slave rebellion in E. comics and while most end badly for the slaves, it's clear enough that despite all the social programming not all girls accept their lot in life without resistance.

I figure Anna was probably a handful back home and that may be part of what Zalupatsin found interesting about her in the first place. She's a challenge and that kind of guy tends to want whatever is most difficult to secure.


Its like dogs and horses - the best ones are the most spirited. You have to 'bend' the passion into the desire to win but they are still dangerous. Hence most winners are not family friendly.

Also he probably wants something unique and a girl that has good judgement 'willingly' submitting is prefreable to a gynoid.
Why do you think all the stories have 'reluctant' girls - broken ones are not fun. As any fisherman will tell you its the ones that fight you that you value. If they escape a few times fine but when you capture them you value them more because of the effort.

Hence Anna. - She is a trophy that he will value because of the effort.

Remember that people will judge a guy on his slaves and so if the slave is tough but obdeiant to the master - just how powerful is Master?

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 Post subject: Re: Zalupatsin
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:25 pm 
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All that has been said is true.

For certain men in certain situations.

I like Anna and her attitude, it's fun to read stories about her. And I like Zalupatsin as the man who can dominate her.

But, as a contrast, I like Maggie more than Sherry and much more than Anna. And I don't even especially like blondes. 8-)


(I still like Sherry and Anna, I like all the girls in E's stories...)

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 Post subject: Re: Zalupatsin
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:34 pm 
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@bangerman I think the best Gor book to start with is #7. Its more of a stand alone. The Gor books are full of really great, and erotic ideas. the problem is most of them are just not that well written. If only John Norman had a bit more skill as a writer. Alas, he is first and foremost a philosopher. He has fascinating ideas about what truly makes humans happy, and the counter-intuitive nature of our desires, but the actual text often falls short. I'd still say read #7 though, its better than most.


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 Post subject: Re: Zalupatsin
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:20 am 
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It is very dependent upon what you are looking fo. The traditional argument is read the first 5 because they are the best stories and ignore the rest because it is all D/s ad nauseam. Given your presence on this forum, that won't be an issue particularly.

Here is a basic rundown.

1-5 are based on the Warlord of Mars books and follow a similar structure with slightly more slave girls. They are decent adventure stories about a "super" hero Tarl Cabot, whose main weakness is an inability to see his own best interests (i.e keeping slave girls :D )
7,11,17, 22, 26.28 and 31 are all based on an Earth girl and her "Welcome to Gor" passage
14-17 are based on a dfferent and less interesting earther hero with the issues same issues over female slaves that "early" Tarl had, before he got "better".
The rest feature Tarl Cabot as he happily slaves and slaughters his way across Gor bringing death and lower slave prices wherever hie goes.

The best ones in my opinion are Nomads, (5) Assassins (5) Raiders (6) Hunters (8) Pretty much any of these would be a decent starting point (though Tarnsman (1) is the most logical obviouslyit it does set up a potential story thread that has never been resolved 31 books and the best part of 50 years later) Like was said Norman has an interesting outlook on narrative.


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 Post subject: Re: Zalupatsin
PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:37 pm 
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I know a lot of bad writers get into print and some even develop cult followings, but the popularity of John Norman remains inexplicable.


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 Post subject: Re: Zalupatsin
PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 5:21 pm 
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ernestgreene wrote:
I know a lot of bad writers get into print and some even develop cult followings, but the popularity of John Norman remains inexplicable.


John Norman seems to have been at an ok place at the right time. He had one of the first notable bdsm worlds, and seems to have coasted off that cult following, and now Second Life.

I'm just not sure why the hell better bdsm fantasy/scifi book worlds haven't taken over

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 Post subject: Re: Zalupatsin
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 12:20 am 
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celestical wrote:
ernestgreene wrote:
I know a lot of bad writers get into print and some even develop cult followings, but the popularity of John Norman remains inexplicable.


John Norman seems to have been at an ok place at the right time. He had one of the first notable bdsm worlds, and seems to have coasted off that cult following, and now Second Life.

I'm just not sure why the hell better bdsm fantasy/scifi book worlds haven't taken over


Its very hard to find good bdsm scifi/fantasy work. Thats part of the reason E has such a loyal following. Lets share! Do you have any suggestions where I can find good stuff? the only thing I would say is on par with Gor and E is PA magazine.


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 Post subject: Re: Zalupatsin
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:45 am 
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Kishiel's Dart ( experiences pain as pleasure)
The Sleeping Beauty By Anne Rice (only read the first one. It starts light, but hits my shibari/ponyplay buttons)
The Veldereet, though I don't care for rubber

In web comics, your best bet on serious sexy is Chester 5000, which is mostly silent, and has a lotta sexbot sex

Lighter sexy webcomics are Oglaf, which is basically sexy fun in a fantasy world, and curvy which is trans dimensional lesbian fun. On deviantart you can look up Demon Camdy, but that's more cute bdsm than hardcore, and user by the name of Shinez, who is working on a bdsm couple coming together.

I'd love more to read. Amazon and even some of Goodreads has been hard to filter with all the 50 shades copycats

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 Post subject: Re: Zalupatsin
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 4:55 am 
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I have seen a lot, but not one as fascinating as erenischverse. It presses all my buttons. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Zalupatsin
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:21 pm 
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The thing about Zalupatsin and Anna is that she is his creature, he has made her what she is, and (as I say in the Karma thread) the suggestion is that this happened when she was young - no need to spell it out but if we imagine she is/was of an age now to get into Eville High, then just do some math to get an idea. So it's not that Zalupatsin turns up in Karma and suddenly, uniquely, superheroically, is able to dominate a female who previously had been uncontrollable, but rather that his mastery over her has been long established, and presumably brutally, during Anna's formative years. I found Z fascinating, perfectly plausible, and his relationship with Anna / her response to him equally so.

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