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 Post subject: Holly Venger
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:33 am 
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So what does everyone think about her?

What does the changes in the office potentially mean for her?

How would her strength be interpreted here on in?

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 Post subject: Re: Holly Venger
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:48 pm 
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I doubt I'll get my wish any time soon, but I'd love some flashback scenes from her slavecop days dropped into a standalone story about present-day Holly. As for the changes in the office, I think that things will go on mostly the same for her, until Paul takes a mood and throws her abruptly under the bus.


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 Post subject: Re: Holly Venger
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:51 pm 
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The thing is that she prices herself below the cost of trouble. As she gets older her value drops but if she maintains her Matron persona then she can serve as an example for all women. Some women can look at her and think - I can have a long life. This makes her valuable alive whereas humiliating her etc. is slowing becoming worth less to people.

Why mess with an 'Old Hag' when there is always something new and pretty to play with?

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 Post subject: Re: Holly Venger
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:15 am 
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I second the idea of a holly as a slavecop flashback. :mrgreen:


She has a tricky life. Not only her but all blue band women. She has to stay fit an desirable so the men would let them in their world. They have to earn their living with wages after all. But they have to be a correct amount of attractive, any more will make them enslavement targets again. The attitude is also important. Some are cocky and dominaring around women, But still sub around men. Holly plays with fire a couple times in the office but she had some boss protection. She is lucky that she has a boss who reespects and likes her. Paul even keeps his promise to her. Her previpus boss was not understanding.


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 Post subject: Re: Holly Venger
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:59 am 
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Paul says she negotiated her employment compensation to be equal to her freedom fees plus upkeep which essentially made it economically a non-starter to re-enslave her.

This implies two things to me; Holly is past her retired slave cop enslavement exemption, and at her age the freedom fees are about equal to the slave tax she would incur to her master.

Does this make sense? Am I missing anything?

I don't think this would work for a younger girl, I always thought that freedom fees were more than slave taxes for the express purpose of encouraging CMR's to sell their girls. Because you've got to have more 'product' on the market to keep the slave economy moving. :geek:

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 Post subject: Re: Holly Venger
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:49 am 
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Once again Dr you are making good point. The economy wants them on the market when they are young. So the freedom fees must be highest when they are young. But the tax would also be higher and decreases as the slave ages. So the question is when exactly the freedom fee drops below the tax if ever? (Maybe it never drops below but gets close enough so the difference is not a big deal for ordinary masters to pay).

I say the age must be around 30 or later. Think about the slavecop retirement age. Also many times female characters talked about how females generally don't live past 30. So my guess is the freedom fees for a 30 year old woman must be almost equal to the slave tax for her age.


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 Post subject: Re: Holly Venger
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:00 am 
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before the topic totally dreails I should address the OP by Celestical (Tricky name, the auto correct keeps turning it to Celestial :D)

I imagine Holly was a troublemaker in the force always getting punished for something, or her handler was an exceptionally sadistic one. She suffered really hard in the force and now she unleashes all the reage inside to her female underlings. It was more obvious in the Hotel where she was the sole manager, whipping and r@ping the maids daily. But this new job makes her thread more carefully.

I think the beating punishment will not affect her behaviour towards women in the office, and maybe it will make her tougher even.

But remember that she is no no longer in charge of discipline. She is now practically Sherry's bitch. :lol: And nothing is scarier than a teenage girl with huge power. I wonder if Sherry was satisfied with Holly's boardroom ordeal, will she go further harassing her?


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 Post subject: Re: Holly Venger
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:07 am 
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Holly is probably now outside Sherry's chain of command. Paul made her a promise and I am sure she could manipulate Paul into altering the bargain.

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 Post subject: Re: Holly Venger
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:50 am 
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Dr. White wrote:
Holly is past her retired slave cop enslavement exemption,

This is a good point. In The Hotel, when she was talking to her boss, she mentions that she is almost 35 (a couple months shy). That is the time when her blue collar is supposed to be removed. She still carries it in The Office, so I guess she still has some time till her birth day.

but a smart woman like Holly must be thinking about and preparing for the end of her blue collar period all the time. So I guess she was saving for the freedom payment for the last five years.

I assume the five year period she doesn't have to pay a fee for her freedom. So that's a good portion of her salary go in the savings. I won't be surprised if she buys her freedom up to her early 40s.


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 Post subject: Re: Holly Venger
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:54 am 
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Bangerman wrote:
She is now practically Sherry's bitch. ?

Somebody mentioned in the Office thread that the promise Pual gave Holly has a special wording. She has no sexual obligations to any male employee other than Paul. I'm sure E put that in there for a reason. Now Sherry will be responsible for female discipline for all the females in the office. "No exceptions". I'm almost sure that this will be one of the major points of the sequel. :D :D :D


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 Post subject: Re: Holly Venger
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:03 pm 
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MrGoodPecker wrote:
Dr. White wrote:
Holly is past her retired slave cop enslavement exemption,

This is a good point. In The Hotel, when she was talking to her boss, she mentions that she is almost 35 (a couple months shy). That is the time when her blue collar is supposed to be removed. She still carries it in The Office, so I guess she still has some time till her birth day.

I disagree here. I don't think that it should be her birthday when her blue collar time ends. Her service starts with her enslavement/recruitment to the SC corps, then she retires exactly after 12 years on her enslavement anniversary. Here I assume her service officially starts with her enslavement. but it is also possible that they are not counting the training time we see in the Breed. If they start it with the day they are assigned to Agents, it is even later. Logically, her enslavement comes a while after her 18th birthday, and her training will take some time too. If I'm right, she still may have immunity after her birthday for at least several months.


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 Post subject: Re: Holly Venger
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:54 pm 
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It is good that you raised that issue. Yes, the 12 year term starts with the Master-Agent assignments, so cadet training is not included. It is also possible to deduct days/weeks from accrued total to punish defiance or bad performance, so "12 years at the Hive" is actually a little longer than 12 years.

A Holly flashback is possible, but not in SC3 which is almost set in stone.


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 Post subject: Re: Holly Venger
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:29 am 
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A small point about the blue collar. I don't think she would loose that on the date of her eligibility for re-enslavement (whenever that is calculated to be). My point is that once a slave collar is on it is on for life. Not necessarily the exact same physical collar but practically, as there is no legal way to free a girl. I'm pretty sure E has confirmed this.

My point is that the only other option is returning to a black collar which would indicate active enslavement and therefore make it easy for a girl to hide her status.

It's probably a pretty rare situation. Maybe they put a tag on the blue collar or just trust that the men around her will be keeping an eye on the date?


(or is there a third color for re-enslaveable ex-slave cops?)

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 Post subject: Re: Holly Venger
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:46 am 
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Dr. White wrote:
A small point about the blue collar. I don't think she would loose that on the date of her eligibility for re-enslavement (whenever that is calculated to be). My point is that once a slave collar is on it is on for life. Not necessarily the exact same physical collar but practically, as there is no legal way to free a girl. I'm pretty sure E has confirmed this.

My point is that the only other option is returning to a black collar which would indicate active enslavement and therefore make it easy for a girl to hide her status.

It's probably a pretty rare situation. Maybe they put a tag on the blue collar or just trust that the men around her will be keeping an eye on the date?


(or is there a third color for re-enslaveable ex-slave cops?)

The black band is permanent for ordinary slaves but for Slavecops it is replaced after 12 year service. It is the only exception. The promise of freedom is the only thing that makes brutal Slavecop service attractive for females.

The blue collar has a 5-year time lock that opens automatically when the immunity ends. It signals the BFA registry when it opens. The retired slavecop has to return it to the nearest BFA bureau within three weeks, or she is immediately enslaved and auctioned off.

When the blue band is gone, the female legally becomes a bareneck again, with no special protections or exceptions. After that point she has to buy her freedom permits to stay free, or a male citizen can enslave her. Her freedom permit will be relatively cheaper because she would be 35-36 years old at the end of her immunity.

(also added to wiki)


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 Post subject: Re: Holly Venger
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 3:24 pm 
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Erenisch wrote:
Dr. White wrote:
A small point about the blue collar. I don't think she would loose that on the date of her eligibility for re-enslavement (whenever that is calculated to be). My point is that once a slave collar is on it is on for life. Not necessarily the exact same physical collar but practically, as there is no legal way to free a girl. I'm pretty sure E has confirmed this.

My point is that the only other option is returning to a black collar which would indicate active enslavement and therefore make it easy for a girl to hide her status.

It's probably a pretty rare situation. Maybe they put a tag on the blue collar or just trust that the men around her will be keeping an eye on the date?


(or is there a third color for re-enslaveable ex-slave cops?)

The black band is permanent for ordinary slaves but for Slavecops it is replaced after 12 year service. It is the only exception. The promise of freedom is the only thing that makes brutal Slavecop service attractive for females.

The blue collar has a 5-year time lock that opens automatically when the immunity ends. It signals the BFA registry when it opens. The retired slavecop has to return it to the nearest BFA bureau within three weeks, or she is immediately enslaved and auctioned off.

When the blue band is gone, the female legally becomes a bareneck again, with no special protections or exceptions. After that point she has to buy her freedom permits to stay free, or a male citizen can enslave her. Her freedom permit will be relatively cheaper because she would be 35-36 years old at the end of her immunity.

(also added to wiki)


Wow, so ex-slave cops revert to being actual free women? That seems significant. It seems like that will have a lot of "ripple effects" in other ways we have not thought of yet. That also points out that having a blue collar is actually better than being "free." The blue collared are the most protected class of women. In theory, even the bare-necks would envy them their level of protection. I had not thought of that before.


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 Post subject: Re: Holly Venger
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 5:25 pm 
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I wasn't aware of this misconception that blue collars go back to slavery after their 5 year term. This whole thing was explained and discussed on the old message board. Or maybe I discussed this with some of you via PM and my memory deceives me. That happens a lot.


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 Post subject: Re: Holly Venger
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 12:48 am 
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I wasn't imagining that they were immediately re-enslaved when their exemption expired. I did think that the slave collar was permanent and that the blue collar had two 'modes'; retired - unenslaveable for the five year exemption and retired - enslavable for after that. I didn't think they reverted to actually being free at any point though.

Now, depending on the girl and the fetishes of any potential masters I think some ex-slave cops would be in pretty high demand. Having a 'particular skill set' and all that.

I'm thinking a lot of them end up in similar positions to Holly. Acting as a discipline/control for a large female population, enslaved or not.

Companies, as well as obscenely wealthy Masters with very large harems, would need someone to 'ride herd' on their women. :geek:

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 Post subject: Re: Holly Venger
PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:41 am 
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I guessd it like E said but there is no canon example so far. Holly is near the end may be a future comic with Holly as the star is a good idea ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Holly Venger
PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:01 am 
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gatolica wrote:
a future comic with Holly as the star is a good idea ;)

I'm very curious about how Holly handles a man in bed. It's not like I want to see a sex scene with Holly, I want to see a scene where I can understand her thought process. She is a special character and for now I can't imagine her having hetero sex. :roll: does this sound weird?

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 Post subject: Re: Holly Venger
PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 1:06 pm 
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samantha wrote:
:roll: does this sound weird?

Yes.


(everything's weird. 8-) )

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