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Devil Incantation
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Which artists (other than Erenisch) you like?
NONE 6%  6%  [ 8 ]
Cagri 8%  8%  [ 12 ]
Feather 1%  1%  [ 2 ]
Fernando 31%  31%  [ 44 ]
Ferres 5%  5%  [ 7 ]
Gary Roberts 5%  5%  [ 7 ]
Lesbi K leih 4%  4%  [ 6 ]
Moffett 6%  6%  [ 8 ]
Montal 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
Predondo 6%  6%  [ 9 ]
Slasher 1%  1%  [ 2 ]
Templeton 11%  11%  [ 16 ]
Viktor 5%  5%  [ 7 ]
Wayne Wine 6%  6%  [ 9 ]
Other (write in) 3%  3%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 143
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 7:37 am 
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Just curious about which other dofantasy artists people buy. Before I was hooked on E, I bought a few fernandos and a couple templetons, I also have one lesbi k leih comic. I think I bought my last non-EC comic more than two years ago.

What about you guys?. Please tell me the names of the comics by other artists you like most. I might go for some when I have too much money to spend some day :roll:


EDIT - I know there are more artists who worked for dofantasy in the past, but I can't fit them all in even if I remembered them all. please write in if you favorite is not in the list.

(You can choose up to 7 options if you like, and you can change your vote later)


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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 10:41 am 
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Recent times I don't buy others but I boght many fernando and ferres before. Lat one I bought was Viktor.


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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 6:19 pm 
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I buy everything Erenisch and Fernando produce.

After that I might pick up a Montal or a Lesbi K if the concept seems interesting enough.

Used to get me some Templetons, but stopped just before he stopped producing new ones. Nice art but boring scripts.

I like Cagri's stories/scripts a lot, but sadly his art just doesn't do it for me. Ferres is similar, but flipped over, superbly drawn girls, those eyes, but the on the whole every frame is just to much, it's messy. And the scripts are sooo boring and I don't like the historic setting all that much either.

Wayne wine can do some nice comics though. But it was a long time since I purchased one of his.

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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 12:42 am 
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I'm an only-erenisch girl. ;)

I bought a Lesbi comic a looong while ago, so I did not check her box.

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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 3:53 am 
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I went through a phase where I bought a whole pile of artists some of whom I still like, some not so much so.

As I have stated elsewhere on this forum, I really like Fernando's work and have most of his stuff. Moffett has grown on me, Templeton drew heroines of astonishing beauty and Ferres turns every panel into a poster quality image. I am beginning to enjoy Viktor as well.


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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 6:48 am 
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None of the other artists are at E's level but I do like the other dofantasy comics. It's just that it's hard to get great art, great story and great action in the one package the way E consistently does. Fernando and Ferres are the closest to doing that IMO. Some of the other ones have really nice art but repetitive, predictable scenes, some comics have nothing but one long extended scene depicted. But there's usually something of interest in most of the comics even if they fall short and there are often flaws.

I agree with Thon's comments about Cagri. Sometimes you have overly cartoonish depictions and they just take you out of the scene. Predondo has an interesting style with using a thick outline for figures but when he shows a character stretching a boob it stops looking like a boob and starts looking more like some plastic stretchy material. Also, there's too many "look-of-horror" faces. I like looks of horror as much as the next gal but not in every flippin' frame!

There are a few other things that pop up in lots of dofantasy comics that I'm not keen on - 1. nose rings and uglification - I get the reason from a story point of view but I want to look at *pretty* girls in depraved situations and making them look ugly defeats the purpose. 2. Using obese and grotesque characters, particularly (dominant) women - who wants to see some fat old granny getting eaten out? 3. Stories just stopping abruptly with a "to be continued" - I know, pot kettle black because most of my own stories end with a "to be continued" but sometimes you get the feeling they don't know where the story is going to go and they've drawn enough action to fill a comic so let's just stop. If there's a cliffhanger or teaser for the next thing, this is ok, but sometimes it just stops.


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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 9:37 am 
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triona_b wrote:
1. nose rings and uglification - I get the reason from a story point of view but I want to look at *pretty* girls in depraved situations and making them look ugly defeats the purpose. 2. Using obese and grotesque characters, particularly (dominant) women - who wants to see some fat old granny getting eaten out?


I feel the same way, but I suppose it's a turn on for some? Or a power thing? (Much in the same way shooting yourself in the foot means you have power over the gun)

triona_b wrote:
3. Stories just stopping abruptly with a "to be continued" - I know, pot kettle black because most of my own stories end with a "to be continued" but sometimes you get the feeling they don't know where the story is going to go and they've drawn enough action to fill a comic so let's just stop. If there's a cliffhanger or teaser for the next thing, this is ok, but sometimes it just stops.


Speaking of...how are your next chapters coming along? Your audience eagerly awaits more of your writing!


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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 10:05 am 
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mehmeh wrote:
Speaking of...how are your next chapters coming along? Your audience eagerly awaits more of your writing!


hehe :lol:

I got a bit sidetracked but I will try to get back to them soon. Probably Aine's story first as it's nearing a conclusion, then Tom's to bring him up to date with his slave's timeline and then I can wrap up Cumtunnels' story.


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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 10:19 am 
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I mostly buy E but I have tryed some others artists.

I buyed many Fernando's (but nowhere near the half of the total): I really love his art but not always the stories:it depends by the setting but when he does something a little different (like Space Pirate Sex-wars or Confiscated Twin) I liked it.

Now and then I buyed some from other artist: Moffet, Ferres, Victor,Templeton and Roberts (just one or two).
I like their art (expecially Ferres and Moffet) but the stories don't enthuse me...

When I discovered Dofantasy the first comics I buyed were by Templeton but just a pair and after no more: I like his art but the writing style for me it's too slow and difficult and the stories ripetitive.

triona_b wrote:
2. Using obese and grotesque characters, particularly (dominant) women - who wants to see some fat old granny getting eaten out? .


Wise words!

And let's add that after reading ten or more comics with good innocent girl/girls kidnapped by billionaire/sheik or criminal/redneck ,this type of story become boring.


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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 11:12 am 
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triona_b wrote:
There are a few other things that pop up in lots of dofantasy comics that I'm not keen on - 1. nose rings and uglification - I get the reason from a story point of view but I want to look at *pretty* girls in depraved situations and making them look ugly defeats the purpose. 2. Using obese and grotesque characters, particularly (dominant) women - who wants to see some fat old granny getting eaten out? 3. Stories just stopping abruptly with a "to be continued" - I know, pot kettle black because most of my own stories end with a "to be continued" but sometimes you get the feeling they don't know where the story is going to go and they've drawn enough action to fill a comic so let's just stop. If there's a cliffhanger or teaser for the next thing, this is ok, but sometimes it just stops.

Totally agree with all these points. Especially points one and two. The nose rings, ring gags, etc to make the women unattractive is pointless. And I think Predondo has an obsession with those. He is a very good artist it seems, but I never felt to read one of his comics. Templeton had the same themes with predondo, but his women were better looking somehow, and he did not use those uglification stuff much.

I think the second point applies to some of the earlier fansadox comics, some of Templeton's. I don't see them any more. If there has to be a dom female in the story, I prefer to see a beauty like Anna, not a fat granny thank you very much.

I also dislike the dungeon type comics in which grotesquely ugly men kidnap beautiful girls and torture them from start to finish. That eliminates most of the other fansadox artists right out of the gate.

Having said all that, I own several Templeton and Fernando comics and a Viktor. If I hadn't discovered Erenisch very late in the game I don't think I would have spent money on those. :roll:


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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 11:26 am 
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Bangerman wrote:
Totally agree with all these points. Especially points one and two. The nose rings, ring gags, etc to make the women unattractive is pointless. And I think Predondo has an obsession with those. He is a very good artist it seems, but I never felt to read one of his comics. Templeton had the same themes with predondo, but his women were better looking somehow, and he did not use those uglification stuff much.

I think the second point applies to some of the earlier fansadox comics, some of Templeton's. I don't see them any more. If there has to be a dom female in the story, I prefer to see a beauty like Anna, not a fat granny thank you very much.


Yes - amen! This also means that if (when!) we get to see the tables turned on the dom female it's a proper scene with a beautiful girl getting abused.

As it happens I like the cover of Predondo's new one but I was just reading one of the older Harem Horror hell ones (and that's not one of the earlier fansadox comics!) and there's a fat old crone getting eaten out several times, nose rings, ring gags and looks-of-horror abound and it would put me off getting it if I thought the new one was going to be filled with more of the same.


Bangerman wrote:
I also dislike the dungeon type comics in which grotesquely ugly men kidnap beautiful girls and torture them from start to finish. That eliminates most of the other fansadox artists right out of the gate.


:lol: True! I don't mind the dungeon setting but you're quite right, if the whole comic is just a quick capture and the rest all torture in one setting it's just boring. This is what I meant about some of them really just being one scene filling out a whole comic.


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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 2:30 pm 
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I've said this before, I absolutely agree with the no uggos idea. Either male or female I don't want to see obese or otherwise ugly people in my sex comics. Particularly not in central roles. In the past some have said that it highlights the helplessness of the girls but I don't agree. This is a fantasy, if I want to see a fat old guy I've got plenty of mirrors. :shock:

As to the repetitiveness of many of the narratives I agree it is a bother and the reason I only buy Erenisch product. But several of the other artists are really good and draw some really hot women. I can usually pick out a nice pinup from their stuff. Unfortunately it's not worth my money just for a panel or two, but I do appreciate the previews in the Dofantasy forums. 8-)

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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 3:27 pm 
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My issue with Cagri (aside from recycled plots) is the expression just don't do it for me. Same with Ferres...VERY wooden.

At least with Roberts, the expressions are more believable (never mind his recycled poses)


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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 9:04 pm 
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Besides E I like Fernando. I've tried buying other artist but end up being disappointed. So i just stick to those two. No offense to E but I find Fernando's girls a lot hotter but I prefer Erenisch story lines over Fernando. Erenisch's girls are the most attractive after Fernando at least to me.

I don't like dungeon type stories but I do enjoy Fernando's cheerleaders. I love the Anne character in that series. She's either my second or third favorite dof character behind Maggie and my second is either Sherry or Anne.

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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 2:20 am 
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triona_b wrote:
Bangerman wrote:
I also dislike the dungeon type comics in which grotesquely ugly men kidnap beautiful girls and torture them from start to finish. That eliminates most of the other fansadox artists right out of the gate.


:lol: True! I don't mind the dungeon setting but you're quite right, if the whole comic is just a quick capture and the rest all torture in one setting it's just boring. This is what I meant about some of them really just being one scene filling out a whole comic.

Just to make myself clear, I don't hate ALL dungeon comics, it is fine unless the whole comic is just a single long torture session. Karma for example can be seen as a dungeon comic but it is totally awesome. :D

The overall color tone is an interesting indicator. For example Erenisch comics are like Archie comics or maybe early Marvel books - colorful and bright. In most other artists darker tones are dominant. In some Templeton stories everything happens in darkness. I give the example of Templeton because I have a few of his books, but I'm sure the rest are also like this.


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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 8:45 am 
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The ones I buy regularly are Erenisch und Fernando. The artwork is great, and the storylines were decent from the beginning or - in Fernando's case - improved a lot recently.

As others have already pointed out: the story part is where most artists fail to deliver IMHO. I love Templeton's artwork, or Predondo's for example - but I'm not actually *reading* a Predondo comic, because there's not much story and the little that is there usually bores me to death (a racist white bitch travelling black Africa constantly insulting her black driver? God, I'm sooo thrilled to learn what happens next ;)), so I end up flipping through it like a picture book containing erotic sketches. Problem is, for a sketch book it has too many boring scenes and way to much stupid dialog that gets in the way ("so you racist white scum bitch think you're better then me? I'll make you addicted to my black cock").

I don't have a problem with "uggos" per se - it does add to the humiliation of course. I just think the concept has been done to death - it's the most simple way to add more tension, so everyone's doing it. Constantly. Scenes like Maria DiFotze volunteering to suck cock or Fernando's setting in Total Control require more effort from the story teller, but the payoff is way bigger IMHO. I don't care much if Paul Stevenson is ugly or not - but the fact he's not ugly makes Sherry's slow transition much more believable and hence adds a lot to my enjoyment when reading their story. Predondo would have wasted that opportunity by making Paul a fat and ugly muslim sadist who would have used Sherry as a toilet at first sight.

Just like someone already mentioned: When I learned about DoF, I bought pretty much everything that came out (except Cagri and Roberts, I simply don't like their style). But once the initial excitement died down, I got a lot more selective.


Last edited by TerminalWanderer on Thu May 16, 2013 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 2:44 pm 
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I agree with most of what's been said here, though I have to be a bit discreet about my own comments for business reasons, as T.I. buys most of its contents from DOF.

To the positive first:

I think Fernando is great and getting better all the time. Not only does he have real art chops and the ability to create gorgeous female characters, of late, as in Total Control, his stories have grown more complex and sophisticated. I note that he enjoys the greatest popularity here of any DOF artist other than E. and it's easy to see why. People here appreciate quality.

I love the way Templeton draws girls - some of the most luscious anywhere - but he's one of the main offenders when it comes to inflicting ugly bad guys not only on the girls but on the viewers. I can see ugly anywhere without having to pay for it.

Cagri's style has improved greatly IMV. He's softened the hard edges on the girls and they're much more appealing. I also find him quite witty at times. The story lines are predictable, but the characters get off some good one-liners.

Roberts specializes in a very particular thing that isn't mine, but he executes it very well. He's really quite meticulous in terms of technique.

On DOF's membership site their are occasional pieces from Tim that are far and away the best to be found there. He still hand-draws everything and his work has a strong echo of John Willie to it, though obviously it's much more explicit. How much to I like Tim? I've bought three of his originals.

Wayne Wine also had good days, but he's uneven.

And they do have one new artist with great promise. His name is Ted Owen and so far he's only done two comics, but they were truly dark and powerful. He draws in a style somewhat reminiscent of Arthur Rackham. His girls are lush and luscious.

However, when it come to ugly, he's one of the worst offenders. Not only are his guys ugly, some of the situations he creates for the girls are more emetic than erotic. I see he's reined that in a bit in his newest work, but there's a ways to go.

Overall, the ugly villains thing is the curse of DOF comics. I used to complain to Nuria that I had problems picking out titles to run in T.I. because even though the girls were attractive, the guys were so hideous I knew my readers wouldn't even look at them. She used to insist that customers wanted this, but E.'s success suggests otherwise. Roberts doesn't do ugglies either and he's quite popular.

It's perfectly possible to be attractive, or at least resemble a human, and still be evil. Often physically appealing bad guys are the most effective type. I think the Russian mobster in Karma is a good example, as he's not entirely unappealing but all the more sinister for it.

I never got anywhere in those arguments, but I'm hoping there may be changes for the better coming, as I know the better artists want to try different approaches and should get a chance at doing so. Nuria once told me that she though readers (she assumed they were all ugly old men themselves) could relate better to unattractive villains. I think that opinion was more revealing of her POV than that of the customers.

As for the story lines, until a certain artist's sales reached a point where he had some leverage, Nuria imposed her story conventions on most everyone else, which is why so many are so predictable. It's pretty much all blonde Western chicks abducted and abused by swarthy foreigners. I rejected several DOF comics for T.I. simply because the level of racism was just unacceptable to American readers. Perhaps that too will change.

And I also hate the repetitious language - obscenities, insults and threats over and over - that runs through so many DOF titles.

I fear for Predondo. I'm not a fan of his style, but recognize it's good art. However, for as long as it's stuck on a single theme, full of ugglies and cluttered with dialog that reads like it was written by someone with a bad case of Tourette's, his talent won't develop to the extent it could. He's new and at some point I expect he'll rebel against the formula and start doing things on his own. I think we'll like them better.

E's comics remain by far the most original and fascinating. Only Fernando has a similar affinity for interesting characters and complex situations, as well as well as a similarly dark sense of humor.

And interestingly, both draw in a bright, deceptively cheerful palette that creates a certain fascinating dissonance between the style and the content that appeals, I think, to more imaginative readers. Alfred Hitchcock once remarked that it's easy to scare people in the dark, but creating what he called "visions of sunlit horror" was much more challenging.


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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 4:07 pm 
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As always I find myself agreeing with most of the arguments ernestgreene lists. I understand that many artists in their initial phase have to follow a formula. And now we learn that that formula was one Nuria dictated, which was already a known secret I guess. But that rule does not apply to our E, who followed an original vision right from the start. So you see, it can be done :D

I have to agree with the arguments above with caution because I did not sample all the works by other artists. I know them through previews and reviews, and frankly they all look alike to me, including Fernando. I think he did change his style a bit and stepped up his game only after E came along, who I think was a positive influence on all others who paid attention. The style change Cagri went through also strengthened my impression that other artists started to feel the heat. With apologies to their fans I have to say that neither Fernando nor Cagri developed or changed enough to make me want to buy their stuff so far. I'm still open to the possibility though. Roberts and Ferres are good artists and have their niche audiences and recognizable styles, but they are not for me.

Ted Owen had my attention with his first work and I was going to buy it actually, but the reviews on the dofantasy forum made me reconsider. Scat and filth stuff together is a big turn off for me. I also don't like the ugly male and female characters in dom roles. By the way I find it a little offensive that Nuria assumed that most dofantasy readers are ugly men (if I got that right) so they want ugly men in lead roles. I don't consider myself ugly. And even if I did I don't think I would like to see ugly men in lead roles. That is very a wrong assumption IMO. If that was the case most action movie stars would be bald fatsos.

Lastly I have to mention that I always thought that most of the dofantasy comics were racist, but it was not a big issue for me because I saw them as silly cartoony versions of American B movies. I do really appreciate the lack of racism in the works of Erenisch, which I think are the only "realistic" stories in the dofantasy catalog. If there were racism in E's comics, it would be big turn off for me.


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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 5:02 pm 
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ernestgreene wrote:
She used to insist that customers wanted this

Most outsiders probably suspected something like this, I guess. But Nuria has been in the business for what, a decade? She must have had plenty of documentation (i.e. sales numbers) available. I know you're not exactly a newcomer yourself, but you're making it sound like she did her best to ignore actual sales numbers?

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she assumed they were all ugly old men themselves

LOL, you would have thought somebody pioneering BDSM publishing on the internet actually had some interest in the topic.

Btw., why do think Nuria managed to become the de facto owner of the market for harder BDSM artwork, especially comics? There must be some stuff she got right - or was it simply enough to have a little head start?

Quote:
As for the story lines, until a certain artist's sales reached a point where he had some leverage, Nuria imposed her story conventions on most everyone else, which is why so many are so predictable.

Do you have an idea if Templeton's departure had something to do with this? He must have been one of her biggest sellers (given the exceptional quality of his artwork and the number of people asking for his return) - but I heard she wrote most (if not all) of his stories. Maybe he's the reason she continued to believe in the ugly old men conspiracy ;)

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And they do have one new artist with great promise. His name is Ted Owen

His heroines look too young for my taste. And like you said, he seems to be an offender in the "ugly situation" category.


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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 8:50 pm 
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Actually, Nuria didn't adopt the ugly men formula based on either market research or sales numbers. She told me personally that this was her opinion and she directed her first artists accordingly, thus setting the pattern. It was pure guesswork and while I think it probably applied correctly to some buyers, we'll never know how much better DOF's numbers might have been had they not been built on the foundation of that paradigm. My own guess, and the popularity of both E. and Fernando attest to it, is that most readers, while willing to tolerate some unattractive characters here and there, don't prefer them. There was no documentation to support or refute her views, as she kept pretty tight control over the content and there wasn't much deviation from the party line.

As to her own interest in BDSM, she gave us a long interview for T.I. in which she was extremely coy on the subject. I don't think anyone really knows how she felt about the content, but she certainly had strong ideas concerning what it should be. Some may have been based purely on what she saw as commercial considerations and others (I have my suspicions which) may have reflected certain responses of her own. By no means were all her instincts misguided. DOF's long survival testifies to how perceptive she was in certain respects.

I've worked in the publishing business for a long time, most of it for a guy who also operates on instinct. Larry Flynt can't always tell what goes on in his readers' heads, but the fact that he's a billionaire attests to the basic soundness of his thinking. One important difference, however, is that Larry doesn't impose his personal preferences on everything he publishes. Hustler is all Larry's vision, but Barely Legal and Taboo he pretty much leaves to those who create them.

Concerning DOF's market predominance, I think it's attributable to several things. Nuria's timing was excellent. She started out with the print magazine Fansadox back in The Nineties and moved into online publishing as soon as it became an option, giving herself a huge advantage. She also reached out to her first artists and nurtured their careers before they become well-known. And her capacity for hard work was astonishing. She really built the business from the ground up at a time when there was nothing like it in the market and operated it with personal attention to every aspect. I give her credit for creating a commercial niche for hardcore BDSM art that had been scattered all over the place before.

Templeton's departure remains an absolute mystery. The company won't discuss it and even other artists who had contact with him before are unable to locate him now. He may have been unhappy with his situation at DOF or he may have simply gotten tired of the content. Artists often go through periods of concentration on a particular genre before moving on to something else. I still expect to see his work again, but most likely under a new name in some completely different context.

For what it's worth, I think Templeton was pretty much at ease with the ugly-guy stereotype. Much of his work went quite far in that direction. However, I don't think that was the reason for his popularity. As ugly as the guys were, the women were equally hot. There was something soulful about the way he depicted them that emotionally engaged readers. Also, like E., he gave his female characters inner lives. They weren't as interesting and tended toward a soap-opera conception of "feminine thinking" but it was possible to empathize with them.

As for Ted Owen, I do find his female characters extremely appealing and, while young, they're clearly young women and quite voluptuous at that. I will concede that he's guilt of Ugly in the First Degree when it comes to the men and to some of the action, but his latest work appears to be moderating those tendencies somewhat.

One of the reasons I took such a strong liking to E.'s work so quickly and pushed to get it in the magazine was precisely because it did not follow the formula. Before we come down too hard on Nuria for imposing her perceptions on her artists, it's only fair to say that some of them came to her in search of work knowing nothing at all about BDSM, so she gave them the best instructions she could. If they had ideas of their own, as was the case with Roberts, Tim and, of course, E., she was smart enough to let them figure out their own formulae. When those artists proved successful on their own, she interfered less in their narratives, although I never knew her to be without an opinion.

Also, she had a good eye for graphics of all kinds. She respected those who could draw well and often spotted that ability even in early stages of development. It would be unfair to say that she didn't respect quality work, whatever the content. I think that contributed to DOF's success as well. While they've sold some pretty weak products, there were plenty of wannabes who didn't come up to her technical standards and were either rejected outright or after a couple of unsuccessful attempts.

As for the racism, as I said, it's been a big problem for me at the magazine. I don't know why she was so certain that her readers wanted dark-on-light domination to the exclusion of so many other possibilities, but clearly there is an audience for it. There's plenty of racist porn in other media, such as videos, but I don't get it, I don't like it and I don't shoot it myself, nor does Nina, who pioneered interracial sex videos before any other big-name performers but only on the condition that race relations were treated respectfully. That's still her rule. We both find the lack of racism a refreshing change in E.'s comics.

Most successful business people I've known have been stubborn, hard-headed and determined, regardless of whether they were right or wrong on a given subject. I suspect it takes that kind of personality to build a commercial enterprise. DOF has always had its faults, but it's also been the launching pad for a number of talents, E. among them, and without Nuria and DOF, I don't know if how we would have come to see the work of those artists.

Though she and I often disagreed, I absolutely respect her for her accomplishments and DOF for having the courage to take on subject matter from which most media keep a wide distance.


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